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Author Topic: 26 County General Election 2020  (Read 61536 times)

Mayo4Sam

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2020, 05:19:20 PM »
What percentage in the BMW I wonder?

We’d be crippled in the West without those investments. AbbVie, Allergan, Abbott and Coke are all investing massive money in the north west. Boston Scientific in Galway are expanding, Amgen in Limerick.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:01:57 PM by Mayo4Sam »
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

magpie seanie

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2020, 05:55:26 PM »
And when the EU come for our Corporation Tax rate/regime, which they will, then what? Those companies are not here out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a fair share of tax and in a country where we can't run a health service, can't house people, can't provide clean water or fix busted pipes, can't provide a proper transport system I'd say it's high time we started looking at another, more sustainable way of developing our country. How many of those jobs will be there in 10-20-30 years time? How are we going to cope with income/wealth distribution when there are very few jobs that aren't done by machines? What is our approach to the climate emergency apart from taxing carbon and trying to not upset farmers?

Foreign Direct Investment has played an important role in Ireland's development but the time to plan for alternatives is long overdue. We've no plan. We lurch from crisis to crisis - some day we'll hit one we can't overcome by screwing working people.

The only alternative to dependence on the multinationals is to rely on SMEs, which are currently being smothered by high tax rates and unsustainable regulation. If the government response is to sacrifice rural businesses including agriculture and food production on the altar of a bogus 'climate emergency', we'll be more reliant on the multinationals than ever before. But maybe that's their plan.


Amazing. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

You don't seem to realise SME's are subject to the same (extremely low) tax rates and regulation (same as all EU States) as multinationals in this country. The same laws. Absolutely incredible to suggest otherwise.

The climate emergency is a scientific fact. It's not an opinion or a theory - it is a fact. It is happening and will have to addressed or the children of today will likely be the last to see old age on this planet. You denying these facts won't change this. People like you only make it harder to tackle this existential problem. I don't want it to be true but it is.

The decline of rural Ireland started a long time ago. It has nothing to do with climate change or an approach to tackling climate change. Rural Ireland has a huge amount to gain if tackling climate change is done is properly but there is no plan. Changes have to be made in virtually all areas but that doesn't mean "sacrifice....on the altar..." as you hysterically put it.

five points

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2020, 06:01:17 PM »
And when the EU come for our Corporation Tax rate/regime, which they will, then what? Those companies are not here out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a fair share of tax and in a country where we can't run a health service, can't house people, can't provide clean water or fix busted pipes, can't provide a proper transport system I'd say it's high time we started looking at another, more sustainable way of developing our country. How many of those jobs will be there in 10-20-30 years time? How are we going to cope with income/wealth distribution when there are very few jobs that aren't done by machines? What is our approach to the climate emergency apart from taxing carbon and trying to not upset farmers?

Foreign Direct Investment has played an important role in Ireland's development but the time to plan for alternatives is long overdue. We've no plan. We lurch from crisis to crisis - some day we'll hit one we can't overcome by screwing working people.

The only alternative to dependence on the multinationals is to rely on SMEs, which are currently being smothered by high tax rates and unsustainable regulation. If the government response is to sacrifice rural businesses including agriculture and food production on the altar of a bogus 'climate emergency', we'll be more reliant on the multinationals than ever before. But maybe that's their plan.


Amazing. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

You don't seem to realise SME's are subject to the same (extremely low) tax rates and regulation (same as all EU States) as multinationals in this country. The same laws. Absolutely incredible to suggest otherwise.

The climate emergency is a scientific fact. It's not an opinion or a theory - it is a fact. It is happening and will have to addressed or the children of today will likely be the last to see old age on this planet. You denying these facts won't change this. People like you only make it harder to tackle this existential problem. I don't want it to be true but it is.

The decline of rural Ireland started a long time ago. It has nothing to do with climate change or an approach to tackling climate change. Rural Ireland has a huge amount to gain if tackling climate change is done is properly but there is no plan. Changes have to be made in virtually all areas but that doesn't mean "sacrifice....on the altar..." as you hysterically put it.

If you really think taxes are low (one word: USC) and regulation is light (go into your local cornershop and count the compulsory signs) in this country, I think we're going to be wasting our time if we start talking about the climate "emergency".
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 06:24:20 PM by five points »

magpie seanie

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2020, 07:05:09 PM »
And when the EU come for our Corporation Tax rate/regime, which they will, then what? Those companies are not here out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a fair share of tax and in a country where we can't run a health service, can't house people, can't provide clean water or fix busted pipes, can't provide a proper transport system I'd say it's high time we started looking at another, more sustainable way of developing our country. How many of those jobs will be there in 10-20-30 years time? How are we going to cope with income/wealth distribution when there are very few jobs that aren't done by machines? What is our approach to the climate emergency apart from taxing carbon and trying to not upset farmers?

Foreign Direct Investment has played an important role in Ireland's development but the time to plan for alternatives is long overdue. We've no plan. We lurch from crisis to crisis - some day we'll hit one we can't overcome by screwing working people.

The only alternative to dependence on the multinationals is to rely on SMEs, which are currently being smothered by high tax rates and unsustainable regulation. If the government response is to sacrifice rural businesses including agriculture and food production on the altar of a bogus 'climate emergency', we'll be more reliant on the multinationals than ever before. But maybe that's their plan.


Amazing. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

You don't seem to realise SME's are subject to the same (extremely low) tax rates and regulation (same as all EU States) as multinationals in this country. The same laws. Absolutely incredible to suggest otherwise.

The climate emergency is a scientific fact. It's not an opinion or a theory - it is a fact. It is happening and will have to addressed or the children of today will likely be the last to see old age on this planet. You denying these facts won't change this. People like you only make it harder to tackle this existential problem. I don't want it to be true but it is.

The decline of rural Ireland started a long time ago. It has nothing to do with climate change or an approach to tackling climate change. Rural Ireland has a huge amount to gain if tackling climate change is done is properly but there is no plan. Changes have to be made in virtually all areas but that doesn't mean "sacrifice....on the altar..." as you hysterically put it.

If you really think taxes are low (one word: USC) and regulation is light (go into your local cornershop and count the compulsory signs) in this country, I think we're going to be wasting our time if we start talking about the climate "emergency".


There's no point....

Hound

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2020, 08:39:29 PM »
And when the EU come for our Corporation Tax rate/regime, which they will, then what? Those companies are not here out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a fair share of tax and in a country where we can't run a health service, can't house people, can't provide clean water or fix busted pipes, can't provide a proper transport system I'd say it's high time we started looking at another, more sustainable way of developing our country. How many of those jobs will be there in 10-20-30 years time? How are we going to cope with income/wealth distribution when there are very few jobs that aren't done by machines? What is our approach to the climate emergency apart from taxing carbon and trying to not upset farmers?

Foreign Direct Investment has played an important role in Ireland's development but the time to plan for alternatives is long overdue. We've no plan. We lurch from crisis to crisis - some day we'll hit one we can't overcome by screwing working people.
I understand your sentiments completely, albeit I think some of it is a bit misguided, and I'd love to hear what your alternative to MNCs is!

Apple are here 40 years. There are scores of tech and pharma companies who are here now 20 years. I don't know exactly how many are here over 10 years, but it's well over 100, providing tens of thousands of long term well paid jobs.

Barring the Apple case which is debatable (they have a different structure to all the other tech cos, which I can explain if anyone is bored enough to want to know), every company pays their fair share of Irish tax on Irish profits. 12.5%.
The 2.5% you hear about sometimes from negligent media is absolute nonsense.

Whatever you want to say about FF, their tax policies to attract MNCs was brilliant and really successful. Whatever you want to say about FG, their tax policies have been better again. Our offering to companies looking to move away from havens has been spectacularly successful. And its driven by substance. Ireland does not work from a tax perspective, unless the MNCs bring substance and people. Jobs.

The tax take from corporation tax last year was phenomenal. A one-off many are saying. But this year will blow that out of the water as will the following year. 2021 will be the high point, as EU /OECD rules will push some of the tax elsewhere, but we'll still end up with a good share. There'll be no EU country with a better tax system, albeit we do need to monitor Eastern Europe (and hope that Scotland doesn't gain independence!).

It will be key that we don't blow the 2020/2021 windfalls. Whatever chance we have of FF or FG not spending everything, would you really trust Labour/SD/Greens not to spend it all?

I do think we tax our entrepreneurs too highly. These people also provide hugely valuable employment. While their companies are also taxed at 12.5%, when they take out money themselves, they are being taxed at 53%-55% on their marginal income. It's not a great encouragement for people to work harder when more than half of anything extra they earn goes in tax.

Why do you say working class are being screwed over? Lower paid workers in Ireland pay the lowest tax in the EU.

Health service is 100% a mess. My own mother had a horrific experience this year where she was sent home because a young doctor in Beaumont's primary objective seemed to be not to give her a bed, and it was a miracle it didn't cause her catastrophic injury. Back into A&E where she suffered utter humiliation for 48 hours, before being operated on by a master/genius to give her some chance of a normal life going forward.

Health service isn't a mess because FF and FG haven't thrown buckets of money at it. Some ministers have gone at it with the absolute best intentions but realised they were pishing into the wind. It's a not mess due to our doctors and nurses, who are generally very good. What it needs is a complete rip it up and start again approach. But that would mean lots of admin staff in the health service losing their job or being routed elsewhere. This can't and won't be let happen. Because of union power.
Would that improve under Lab/SD/Greens?   

Rossfan

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2020, 08:56:14 PM »
You can't rip up the health service and start again because that would need every hospital and facility to close for a week or 2.
The only people I've heard complaining about the Sláintecare plan were Consultants because they'd lose their perk of a Private practice in public hospitals.
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larryin89

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2020, 09:38:08 PM »
“Why do you say working class are being screwed over? Lower paid workers in Ireland pay the lowest tax in the EU.”

Doubt that’s true but anyway let’s try another angle .

Where does one live in Dublin as a lower paid worker ?

Walk-in down mchale rd , sun out, summers day , game day . That’s all .

magpie seanie

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2020, 09:48:35 PM »
I said "working people", not the working class.

Eire90

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2020, 10:39:43 PM »
its a load of nonsense nothing will change

Lar Naparka

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2020, 11:38:47 PM »
Speaking of his experiences as Minister for Health, Brendan Howlin once said it was clear that departmental policy was to make, and keep, the public health operating at such an inefficient and unacceptable level of inefficiency that the greatest number of those who could afford the cost would opt to take private insurance policies. Ministers are transient, whereas senior bureaucrats are permanent so ministers have minimal influence on policies.
(I can't recall his exact words but that's the gist of what he had to say on the matter.)
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Mayo4Sam

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2020, 12:49:15 AM »
If any of the parties were willing to tackle the welfare state they’d romp home in an election

A social welfare card would be start, a limit to what one person can take home

Put a stop the absolute sense of entitlement that people who have added nothing to the state have
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

GiveItToTheShooters

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2020, 01:45:31 AM »
And when the EU come for our Corporation Tax rate/regime, which they will, then what? Those companies are not here out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't pay a fair share of tax and in a country where we can't run a health service, can't house people, can't provide clean water or fix busted pipes, can't provide a proper transport system I'd say it's high time we started looking at another, more sustainable way of developing our country. How many of those jobs will be there in 10-20-30 years time? How are we going to cope with income/wealth distribution when there are very few jobs that aren't done by machines? What is our approach to the climate emergency apart from taxing carbon and trying to not upset farmers?

Foreign Direct Investment has played an important role in Ireland's development but the time to plan for alternatives is long overdue. We've no plan. We lurch from crisis to crisis - some day we'll hit one we can't overcome by screwing working people.
I understand your sentiments completely, albeit I think some of it is a bit misguided, and I'd love to hear what your alternative to MNCs is!

Apple are here 40 years. There are scores of tech and pharma companies who are here now 20 years. I don't know exactly how many are here over 10 years, but it's well over 100, providing tens of thousands of long term well paid jobs.

Barring the Apple case which is debatable (they have a different structure to all the other tech cos, which I can explain if anyone is bored enough to want to know), every company pays their fair share of Irish tax on Irish profits. 12.5%.
The 2.5% you hear about sometimes from negligent media is absolute nonsense.

Whatever you want to say about FF, their tax policies to attract MNCs was brilliant and really successful. Whatever you want to say about FG, their tax policies have been better again. Our offering to companies looking to move away from havens has been spectacularly successful. And its driven by substance. Ireland does not work from a tax perspective, unless the MNCs bring substance and people. Jobs.

The tax take from corporation tax last year was phenomenal. A one-off many are saying. But this year will blow that out of the water as will the following year. 2021 will be the high point, as EU /OECD rules will push some of the tax elsewhere, but we'll still end up with a good share. There'll be no EU country with a better tax system, albeit we do need to monitor Eastern Europe (and hope that Scotland doesn't gain independence!).

It will be key that we don't blow the 2020/2021 windfalls. Whatever chance we have of FF or FG not spending everything, would you really trust Labour/SD/Greens not to spend it all?

I do think we tax our entrepreneurs too highly. These people also provide hugely valuable employment. While their companies are also taxed at 12.5%, when they take out money themselves, they are being taxed at 53%-55% on their marginal income. It's not a great encouragement for people to work harder when more than half of anything extra they earn goes in tax.

Why do you say working class are being screwed over? Lower paid workers in Ireland pay the lowest tax in the EU.

Health service is 100% a mess. My own mother had a horrific experience this year where she was sent home because a young doctor in Beaumont's primary objective seemed to be not to give her a bed, and it was a miracle it didn't cause her catastrophic injury. Back into A&E where she suffered utter humiliation for 48 hours, before being operated on by a master/genius to give her some chance of a normal life going forward.

Health service isn't a mess because FF and FG haven't thrown buckets of money at it. Some ministers have gone at it with the absolute best intentions but realised they were pishing into the wind. It's a not mess due to our doctors and nurses, who are generally very good. What it needs is a complete rip it up and start again approach. But that would mean lots of admin staff in the health service losing their job or being routed elsewhere. This can't and won't be let happen. Because of union power.
Would that improve under Lab/SD/Greens?
What a load of absolute tripe. Ireland has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, corporate tax rates around, and if the government had a set of balls that would be their first port of call, massively increasing the corporate tax rate for large multinationals to tackle the the housing and health crisis. But no, you as a clear West Brit, for some random reason unrelated to this matter wanting Scotland to remain attached to the UK, says it all. The fact of the matter is that these entrepreneurs are not taxed enough, and taxing them properly, never mind anything unrelated with Scotland, would go a long way to solving simple deficit issues.

Rossfan

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2020, 10:58:05 AM »
Speaking of his experiences as Minister for Health, Brendan Howlin once said it was clear that departmental policy was to make, and keep, the public health operating at such an inefficient and unacceptable level of inefficiency that the greatest number of those who could afford the cost would opt to take private insurance policies. Ministers are transient, whereas senior bureaucrats are permanent so ministers have minimal influence on policies.
(I can't recall his exact words but that's the gist of what he had to say on the matter.)
It appears that way alright.
Mind you in practice if the Service did improve a lot of people would drop health insurance meaning the Service would have to expand again to cope!!
Why do we need a HSE, can the Dept of Health not run the Service for a population of 5m??
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Hound

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2020, 11:16:55 AM »
I said "working people", not the working class.
But still didn't answer the question.

How are working people (in a country with pretty much full employment) being screwed over by FG and how would Lab/SD/Greens/you do better?


seafoid

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Re: 26 County General Election 2020
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2020, 11:17:16 AM »
If any of the parties were willing to tackle the welfare state they’d romp home in an election

A social welfare card would be start, a limit to what one person can take home

Put a stop the absolute sense of entitlement that people who have added nothing to the state have
You could say the same about corporate welfare.
The economic model is very open and very volatile when the global economy gets into trouble. The economy contracted over 12% from 2008 to 2010.
Social welfare can’t get that sort of effect.

5% of people own 40% of everything. There is enough money there to fund the health system.
Lookit