Author Topic: Jim Gavin  (Read 6465 times)

macdanger2

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2019, 08:27:23 PM »
A remarkable achievement winning 5 in a row and 6 AI's in a decade. Huge pressure given their financial and home advantage. There is a huge expectation to succeed with such advantages. Managers like Mancini, Mourinho, Guardiola have shown that it takes a good managers to deal with such pressures and get you team over the line. It's not as easy as it looks. Others would have failed. Would have been Manager of 7 in a row except for complacency against Donegal in 2014. I suppose that was the last time he was caught off guard and it ensured the drive for 5 in a row.

The loss to Donegal in 2014 was more hubris than complacency. Gavin's only real error in his tenure with the Dublin seniors.
That's a bit harsh on Donegal.

Dublin had been playing brilliant attacking football up to that game, and the first 15-20 minutes they were on fire with Connolly and Flynn kicking 4 or 5 long range points between them. Donegal had a plan, and despite the early setback, they stuck with it. And while the plan was a very good one, it would have been worth feck all had the Donegal players not been at the top of their game. Their tackling, their pace, their passing, their support play had us in disarray. And then their total composure when their good play led to scoring chances. They refused to miss. They were simply too good on the day.

Dublin missed several goal chances that they'd have scored on any other day, if they go in, Donegal are toast

Lar Naparka

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2019, 09:42:34 PM »
Meath arenít but there are thirty other counties one of which is Kerry with a very good record at underage and that is is still coming through. I donít know why you pick Meath out...

Splitting etc would be a massive shift. You talk like it is a matter of course. It isnít.

Moving from the super eights to proper knockout would help too.

How the thing pans out post gavin a big factor too.
I think itís not a matter of if Dublin is going to be split but more a question of when this will happen. It isnít just a question of All Irelands won but of the size of the countyís population. toio
Right now, the Dublin region has approximately one third of the population of the republic and, just as importantly, roughly 40% of the national resources. (Recent govt. estimates, not mine.)
By 2040, the population will have increased to 40% of the state and the share of the resources or the countryís wealth will have risen to 50% of the total.
I think those figures understated. Dublin is outstriping the rest of the country by a greater rate than govt. Figures indicate. Thatís not got anything directly to do with Dublin GAA, you can put it down to social, political and economic factors but it does have a knock on effect on the way the GAA interacts with the general population.
Every county has a county board, regardless of the countyís population. So it will have just one senior intercounty team, one senior club championship etc. Dublin have a fairly small number of very big clubs but only a single premier team. All counties have the same setup but the difference between underage and senior clubs isnít as great.
Na Fianna club claims to have 2,000 kids involved at weekends but how many of them will ever get to play for the club at senior level? If other counties had the same dropout rate,the GAA would be banjaxed long before now. The number of clubs in Dublin is not increasing and the price of land means the clubs in existence canít afford to acquire new land so forget the ballyhoo about increasing numbers of kids joining GAA clubs, Dublin is losing its market share of active membership.
Dunno the exact figure but it was stated on another thread on this board that Dublin has less than 100 registered clubs. According to the county website, Cavan has 41 clubs.
Now, you donít need to be a rocket scientist to work out that Dublin has 18 times the population of Cavan but less than three times the number of Gaelic clubs.
Like every other sport, THe GAA has to fight for its market share of active members and to increase it if possible. Cavan has a far higher percentage of the population involved in its affairs than Dublin has and it hasnít won an All Ireland since 1952.
Awards at the highest level doesnít always lead to higher participation numbers down the line and Dublin is a prime example of this. That is one reason why Dublin needs every cent it gets from HQ or anywhere else to keep its crazy club structure operating.
Sooner or later, reality bites or the GAA is going to go tits up. Right now, I reckon itís an each way bet.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

seafoid

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2019, 09:58:52 PM »
Meath arenít but there are thirty other counties one of which is Kerry with a very good record at underage and that is is still coming through. I donít know why you pick Meath out...

Splitting etc would be a massive shift. You talk like it is a matter of course. It isnít.

Moving from the super eights to proper knockout would help too.

How the thing pans out post gavin a big factor too.

The inter county system is out of balance because Dublin are ahead of everyone else and have a system that leverages their population advantage.

I think that change depends on how GAA punters react. The GAA is very sensitive to revenues. If attendances collapse you might see a showdown between Dublin and the GAA. The situation wonít suddenly go back to normal.
Lookit

Rossfan

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2019, 11:47:38 PM »
Those "thirty other Counties" have won how many All Irelands between them?
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2019, 11:30:04 AM »
Those "thirty other Counties" have won how many All Irelands between them?

Well given I said one of them was Kerry then more than Dublin...

What you're talking about here Sf is a radical change. The GAA won't even admit Croke Park is the home venue for Dublin and wouldn't even take their "neutral" games out of it. To completely rip everything up and tear Dublin apart is many steps down the line from a baby step of number one which they won't even take.

To assume it's a matter of course that Dublin will be broken down I think is a bit pie in the sky just...

greatpoint

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2019, 02:30:46 PM »
A remarkable achievement winning 5 in a row and 6 AI's in a decade. Huge pressure given their financial and home advantage. There is a huge expectation to succeed with such advantages. Managers like Mancini, Mourinho, Guardiola have shown that it takes a good managers to deal with such pressures and get you team over the line. It's not as easy as it looks. Others would have failed. Would have been Manager of 7 in a row except for complacency against Donegal in 2014. I suppose that was the last time he was caught off guard and it ensured the drive for 5 in a row.

The loss to Donegal in 2014 was more hubris than complacency. Gavin's only real error in his tenure with the Dublin seniors.
That's a bit harsh on Donegal.

Dublin had been playing brilliant attacking football up to that game, and the first 15-20 minutes they were on fire with Connolly and Flynn kicking 4 or 5 long range points between them. Donegal had a plan, and despite the early setback, they stuck with it. And while the plan was a very good one, it would have been worth feck all had the Donegal players not been at the top of their game. Their tackling, their pace, their passing, their support play had us in disarray. And then their total composure when their good play led to scoring chances. They refused to miss. They were simply too good on the day.

Dublin missed several goal chances that they'd have scored on any other day, if they go in, Donegal are toast

You can apply that to nearly any match and look at what-ifs but it's a reductive way of viewing things in my opinion.

In terms of Hound's post, I actually think Donegal were full value for that win but there's no denying that Gavin's refusal to employ a defensive system played directly into McGuinness and Donegal's hands. It wasn't until 2015 that he began to tighten things up defensively and look what happened after that.

Captain Obvious

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2019, 03:24:23 PM »
A remarkable achievement winning 5 in a row and 6 AI's in a decade. Huge pressure given their financial and home advantage. There is a huge expectation to succeed with such advantages. Managers like Mancini, Mourinho, Guardiola have shown that it takes a good managers to deal with such pressures and get you team over the line. It's not as easy as it looks. Others would have failed. Would have been Manager of 7 in a row except for complacency against Donegal in 2014. I suppose that was the last time he was caught off guard and it ensured the drive for 5 in a row.

The loss to Donegal in 2014 was more hubris than complacency. Gavin's only real error in his tenure with the Dublin seniors.
That's a bit harsh on Donegal.

Dublin had been playing brilliant attacking football up to that game, and the first 15-20 minutes they were on fire with Connolly and Flynn kicking 4 or 5 long range points between them. Donegal had a plan, and despite the early setback, they stuck with it. And while the plan was a very good one, it would have been worth feck all had the Donegal players not been at the top of their game. Their tackling, their pace, their passing, their support play had us in disarray. And then their total composure when their good play led to scoring chances. They refused to miss. They were simply too good on the day.

Dublin missed several goal chances that they'd have scored on any other day, if they go in, Donegal are toast

You can apply that to nearly any match and look at what-ifs but it's a reductive way of viewing things in my opinion.

In terms of Hound's post, I actually think Donegal were full value for that win but there's no denying that Gavin's refusal to employ a defensive system played directly into McGuinness and Donegal's hands. It wasn't until 2015 that he began to tighten things up defensively and look what happened after that.

To a point Dublin had a defensive system it was just Jim McGuinness exploiting the weakness Dublin had on the counter attack. A problem area Jim Gavin corrected after that game. Donegal certainly deserved their win the better team for 50 minutes of that game and ended up winning by a bit to spare.

Dublin should remain strong for the foreseeable future however how strong will their challengers be in the next 3 or 4 years.  The last 7 years we have watched Kerry and Tyrone teams reach finals v Dublin that weren't a patch on their All Ireland winning teams and Mayo where a few finals was there to be won for them but they found different ways to lose them.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 03:26:10 PM by Captain Obvious »

priceyreilly

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2019, 03:56:08 PM »
Do you know what helped Dublin after 2014? The hiring of a professional basketball coach to break down tight defences and create their possession game. Of course, a coach of that standard didn't come cheap, either does the huge backroom team. This is all after the multi million euro player development system Dublin have been operating for near 2 decades. For these reasons, Gavin can never be referred to as the greatest manager in Gaelic Football. Is Michelle Smith's manager the greatest ever Irish swimming coach? Is the US Postal team manager with Lance Armstrong on board the greatest ever cycling manager? I could go on.

Just as there's an asterisk beside all Dublin titles post doping, there's an asterisk beside Jim Gavin's record at underage and senior. 

imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2019, 04:28:13 PM »
that is a grossly unfair comparison.

He used the resources at his disposal therefore he is as bad as a drugs cheat?

I don't disagree with the comments about it having gone too far etc but the likes of that post is too far.

lenny

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2019, 05:25:25 PM »
Do you know what helped Dublin after 2014? The hiring of a professional basketball coach to break down tight defences and create their possession game. Of course, a coach of that standard didn't come cheap, either does the huge backroom team. This is all after the multi million euro player development system Dublin have been operating for near 2 decades. For these reasons, Gavin can never be referred to as the greatest manager in Gaelic Football. Is Michelle Smith's manager the greatest ever Irish swimming coach? Is the US Postal team manager with Lance Armstrong on board the greatest ever cycling manager? I could go on.

Just as there's an asterisk beside all Dublin titles post doping, there's an asterisk beside Jim Gavin's record at underage and senior.

lol, I donít know what record books or websites youíre looking at but I havenít seen any asterisks and nor will I. If youíve created some in your own head then you just stick to that but you wonít have much support apart from a few bitter begrudgers.

From the Bunker

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imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2019, 05:44:27 PM »
I wonder does Ewan see any irony in writing that it's hard to warm to somebody...

From the Bunker

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2019, 05:47:52 PM »
I wonder does Ewan see any irony in writing that it's hard to warm to somebody...

If he was not on the Twitter machine he'd be held in higher esteem.

Good to see someone not go down the Brolly brown nosing route with Galvin and Dublin.


imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2019, 05:49:26 PM »
He's a ridiculous individual to be honest so if he has a point somewhere it gets lost because of who he is IMO.

priceyreilly

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2019, 06:12:51 PM »
that is a grossly unfair comparison.

He used the resources at his disposal therefore he is as bad as a drugs cheat?

I don't disagree with the comments about it having gone too far etc but the likes of that post is too far.

I didn't say Gavin was as bad as a drugs cheat. I said his accomplishments come with an asterisk because of the doping. Not his fault, of course, he was just a small player in the overall disgusting scheme of things.