Author Topic: Jim Gavin  (Read 6316 times)

macdanger2

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2019, 10:36:04 PM »
For all his boring interviews etc. I think we can all agree he was a phenomenal manager and an even better man. Brollyís article about him basically says it all!

Iím telling you he will be very difficult to replace I think it leave this year wide open (obvs when I say wide open I mean Kerry have a slight chance).

Good luck to him he has had some managerial career... I wonder though was it his call or had something happened?? Weíll see I guess!

His record as manager will be better judged in a few years time. For me he is the greatest manager of all time. A lot of people question his qualities as they say dublin had big advantages. I think Dublin will now struggle to dominate and I can see teams like Kerry in particular, Mayo, Galway and even Cork having opportunities to win all irelands over the next few years.

I agree. Currently, he has to go down as a great manager but what happens to Dublin in the next 5-10 years may affect how he's judged. If Dublin win say 8/10, then he'll be a very good manager in charge of an unstoppable machine. If Dublin "only" win 3/10, then he'll be remembered as a great manager.

highorlow

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2019, 10:44:44 PM »
Had the privilege of meeting Jim on one occasion.

A genuine decent Dub with a passion, pride and commitment. Fair play.

Lar Naparka

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2019, 01:49:15 AM »
I think itís a bit late in the day/early in the morning to turn this thread into yet another Dubs vs the rest all over again but Malachy Clerkin has set me thinkingÖ..Mayo are past it now; they could only put it up to Dublin for a limited period and the same can be said for any other team in the land.
Kerry may well manage an AI sometime as Dublin are only mortal. They may get caught like in 2014 but as Seafůid might say, an rud is annamh, is iontach or seldom is wonderful as the rest of us might say. 
NO county can or will ever manage to match Dublinís production line of talented young players coming through. Mayo couldnít keep up: Dublin show no sign of easing up; as their key players age, there are multiple choices on hand for whoever replaces Gavin.
Right now, Kerry are the most likely side to have a hope of beating Dublin. IMO, they might in a one off sooner or later but not anytime soon.
Back around the turn of the century, there was a great levelling out in standards across the country. Sligo were most unlucky not to make a major breakthrough. Wexford were serious contenders for a Leinster at the very least and Laois managed to go a step further. Limerick, Clare, Tipp all made headlines and so did Fermanagh. There were probably a few others who show a marked increase in form. Iíd say the period 1995-2005 five saw the most notable period of levelling of in standards throughout the country in the history of the association. Maybe it's a coincidence that it was during this period the backdoor system was introduced. Duno really but itís open to debate.
IMO again, the county with the most reason to feel uneasy at this time was Dublin.
It was a county with first class resources but with second class standards at the very best. Dublin clubs were haemorrhaging young players and the Strategic Review Committee of 2002 put this issue at the top of its agenda. Their proposal that Dublin should be split in two was blown out of the water and the committee's proposal were shelved
But Dublinís internal problems still remained. Thatís why the late John Bailey turned to Bertie Ahern for help and inspiration.  Thatís when Dublin started getting financial aid from the Sports Council and the slide back to mediocrity for many other counties began.
Dublin managed to fine tune their plans with the Blue Wave initiative about five years later or so, but back then, nobody, Bertie included,  thought that Dublin would ever become totally dominant. Bertie figured that at best, Dublin could win 3 out of 5 and that this would incentivise enough kids to play club football to keep the club scene thriving.
( And before anyone asks, I know what Berie was thinking because thatís what the hoor told me.)
Thatís why I think money alone was not the main reason for Jim Gavinís success. It certainly helped but the sheer size of the population was an even bigger factor. Of course, IMO again, his man management skills were second to no other.
But Dublin only need to come up with maybe one out of every 200 to produce a top class player, whereas Mayo or any other county would need a strike rate of one out of 20 or better.
So anybody who thinks Dublinís dominance will end with Gavinís departure probably still believes in the tooth fairy. The structures will still be there and the production line will keep churning out enough young hopefuls to keep everyone on the team looking over his shoulder.
No reasonable person should deny Gavinís exceptional qualities as a tactician and his man management ability but he did not operate in a vacuum and there is no reason to believe, or hope, that Dublin will go off the boil in a dramatic fashion once his successor takes over. 
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seafoid

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2019, 07:14:41 AM »
I think itís a bit late in the day/early in the morning to turn this thread into yet another Dubs vs the rest all over again but Malachy Clerkin has set me thinkingÖ..Mayo are past it now; they could only put it up to Dublin for a limited period and the same can be said for any other team in the land.
Kerry may well manage an AI sometime as Dublin are only mortal. They may get caught like in 2014 but as Seafůid might say, an rud is annamh, is iontach or seldom is wonderful as the rest of us might say. 
NO county can or will ever manage to match Dublinís production line of talented young players coming through. Mayo couldnít keep up: Dublin show no sign of easing up; as their key players age, there are multiple choices on hand for whoever replaces Gavin.
Right now, Kerry are the most likely side to have a hope of beating Dublin. IMO, they might in a one off sooner or later but not anytime soon.
Back around the turn of the century, there was a great levelling out in standards across the country. Sligo were most unlucky not to make a major breakthrough. Wexford were serious contenders for a Leinster at the very least and Laois managed to go a step further. Limerick, Clare, Tipp all made headlines and so did Fermanagh. There were probably a few others who show a marked increase in form. Iíd say the period 1995-2005 five saw the most notable period of levelling of in standards throughout the country in the history of the association. Maybe it's a coincidence that it was during this period the backdoor system was introduced. Duno really but itís open to debate.
IMO again, the county with the most reason to feel uneasy at this time was Dublin.
It was a county with first class resources but with second class standards at the very best. Dublin clubs were haemorrhaging young players and the Strategic Review Committee of 2002 put this issue at the top of its agenda. Their proposal that Dublin should be split in two was blown out of the water and the committee's proposal were shelved
But Dublinís internal problems still remained. Thatís why the late John Bailey turned to Bertie Ahern for help and inspiration.  Thatís when Dublin started getting financial aid from the Sports Council and the slide back to mediocrity for many other counties began.
Dublin managed to fine tune their plans with the Blue Wave initiative about five years later or so, but back then, nobody, Bertie included,  thought that Dublin would ever become totally dominant. Bertie figured that at best, Dublin could win 3 out of 5 and that this would incentivise enough kids to play club football to keep the club scene thriving.
( And before anyone asks, I know what Berie was thinking because thatís what the hoor told me.)
Thatís why I think money alone was not the main reason for Jim Gavinís success. It certainly helped but the sheer size of the population was an even bigger factor. Of course, IMO again, his man management skills were second to no other.
But Dublin only need to come up with maybe one out of every 200 to produce a top class player, whereas Mayo or any other county would need a strike rate of one out of 20 or better.
So anybody who thinks Dublinís dominance will end with Gavinís departure probably still believes in the tooth fairy. The structures will still be there and the production line will keep churning out enough young hopefuls to keep everyone on the team looking over his shoulder.
No reasonable person should deny Gavinís exceptional qualities as a tactician and his man management ability but he did not operate in a vacuum and there is no reason to believe, or hope, that Dublin will go off the boil in a dramatic fashion once his successor takes over.

 What Dublin have post-Gavin is something like an industrial process or a business school approach to produce high spec footballers who can kick off both feet, pass off either hand and run all day. They also know a few dark arts and fit straight away into the team. Coaching levels are extremely high. Nothing like this ever existed in the sport before.

Teams are put away with ease. It's a really impressive machine but the game is in trouble.
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Rossfan

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2019, 09:10:51 AM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

blanketattack

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2019, 09:34:46 AM »
For all his boring interviews etc. I think we can all agree he was a phenomenal manager and an even better man. Brollyís article about him basically says it all!

Iím telling you he will be very difficult to replace I think it leave this year wide open (obvs when I say wide open I mean Kerry have a slight chance).

Good luck to him he has had some managerial career... I wonder though was it his call or had something happened?? Weíll see I guess!


Will Brolly do as much eulogising when Gavin takes his spot on The Sunday Game???

Hound

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2019, 01:19:51 PM »
A remarkable achievement winning 5 in a row and 6 AI's in a decade. Huge pressure given their financial and home advantage. There is a huge expectation to succeed with such advantages. Managers like Mancini, Mourinho, Guardiola have shown that it takes a good managers to deal with such pressures and get you team over the line. It's not as easy as it looks. Others would have failed. Would have been Manager of 7 in a row except for complacency against Donegal in 2014. I suppose that was the last time he was caught off guard and it ensured the drive for 5 in a row.

The loss to Donegal in 2014 was more hubris than complacency. Gavin's only real error in his tenure with the Dublin seniors.
That's a bit harsh on Donegal.

Dublin had been playing brilliant attacking football up to that game, and the first 15-20 minutes they were on fire with Connolly and Flynn kicking 4 or 5 long range points between them. Donegal had a plan, and despite the early setback, they stuck with it. And while the plan was a very good one, it would have been worth feck all had the Donegal players not been at the top of their game. Their tackling, their pace, their passing, their support play had us in disarray. And then their total composure when their good play led to scoring chances. They refused to miss. They were simply too good on the day.

seafoid

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2019, 01:50:59 PM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.

The more successful the Dubs are, the more likely the country will be broken up
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seafoid

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2019, 02:42:28 PM »
The comparison between 2013 and 2019 shows how the Dublin system is completely different to that of any other county, football or hurling
 
Dublin 2013 : S Cluxton (0-1, a 45); J Cooper, R OíCarroll, P McMahon; J McCarthy, G Brennan (0-1), J McCaffrey; MD Macauley, C OíSullivan (0-1); P Flynn (0-1), C Kilkenny, D Connolly (0-1); P Mannion, P Andrews (0-1), B Brogan (2-3, one free).

Dublin 2019 : 1.S Cluxton (capt.); 24. E Murchan (1-0), 3. M Fitzsimons, 2. D Byrne (0-1); 7. J Small, 4. J Cooper, 5. J McCaffrey; 8. B Fenton, 6. J McCarthy (0-1); 10. N Scully (0-1), 11. C Kilkenny (0-4), 12. B Howard; 13. P Mannion (0-4), 14. C OíCallaghan (0-4), 15. D Rock (0-3, one 45).
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dec

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2019, 05:15:43 PM »
high spec footballers who can kick off both feet, pass off either hand and run all day.

As soon as kids have learned to kick with one foot the coaches should start working on kicking with the other foot as well, the same goes for handpasses. Those skills should be second nature by the time they are playing competitive games.

imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2019, 05:44:04 PM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.

The more successful the Dubs are, the more likely the country will be broken up

Do you really think that Dublin will be split up? Really?

If that were to happen I doubt it would be in this lifetime.

From the Bunker

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2019, 06:02:08 PM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.

The more successful the Dubs are, the more likely the country will be broken up

Do you really think that Dublin will be split up? Really?

If that were to happen I doubt it would be in this lifetime.

When the life is completely sucked out of the AI Championship. The GAA will create a Intercounty competition based on the Kerry Model. There will be six to eight main counties. The rest will be made of an amalgamation of tier two counties based on area.

twohands!!!

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2019, 07:38:50 PM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.

The more successful the Dubs are, the more likely the country will be broken up

Do you really think that Dublin will be split up? Really?

If that were to happen I doubt it would be in this lifetime.

Will be shocked if it doesn't happen within the next decade.

seafoid

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2019, 07:43:19 PM »
Agree with my fellow Connachtmen.
That oul 1.4m population will always come in handy.

The more successful the Dubs are, the more likely the country will be broken up

Do you really think that Dublin will be split up? Really?

If that were to happen I doubt it would be in this lifetime.

If the Dubs keep
winning , something will have to give.

At the moment is any other county anywhere near them?

How do you see this playing out? They have won 7 of the last 9 and 5 of the last 5. Are Meath going to come up with an all Ireland team
within 3 years?
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imtommygunn

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Re: Jim Gavin
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2019, 07:51:04 PM »
Meath arenít but there are thirty other counties one of which is Kerry with a very good record at underage and that is is still coming through. I donít know why you pick Meath out...

Splitting etc would be a massive shift. You talk like it is a matter of course. It isnít.

Moving from the super eights to proper knockout would help too.

How the thing pans out post gavin a big factor too.