Leinster U20 Football Championship 2020

[Batman!!!]

Would you count Donal Brennan as suitable?!

[Giovanni]

I would be a bit more optimistic after yesterday's defeat. So much of the game yesterday hinged around the kickouts and, to be honest, I don't think it shows a very high level of preparation when we weren't able to deal with that (particularly when we have a goalkeeper who is clearly an accurate kicker). For me, it was disappointing that we weren't able to solve the problem during the course of the game (or didn't seem to be prepared for what to do when Dublin pressed a kick out). Similarly, the continual carrying the ball into contact was a recipe for failure against a team like Dublin (although I must say the strategic fouling that they got away with all through the game was a bit sickening).

Otherwise though I don't think there was all that much between the teams skillwise. There are a lot of very nice footballers on that team so I think they should be encouraged to stick with it. From 1-7, I thought the team was really excellent. Ronan Coffey looks like a lovely footballer, Slevin did well when the game was going against us and we know that Mark Barry has immense potential. Even several of the subs looked impressive when they came on. So I wouldn't say things are hopeless at all! If these lads stick with it, I think the future isn't too bad at all.

[Laoiseabu]

I would be a bit more optimistic after yesterday's defeat. So much of the game yesterday hinged around the kickouts and, to be honest, I don't think it shows a very high level of preparation when we weren't able to deal with that (particularly when we have a goalkeeper who is clearly an accurate kicker). For me, it was disappointing that we weren't able to solve the problem during the course of the game (or didn't seem to be prepared for what to do when Dublin pressed a kick out). Similarly, the continual carrying the ball into contact was a recipe for failure against a team like Dublin (although I must say the strategic fouling that they got away with all through the game was a bit sickening).

Otherwise though I don't think there was all that much between the teams skillwise. There are a lot of very nice footballers on that team so I think they should be encouraged to stick with it. From 1-7, I thought the team was really excellent. Ronan Coffey looks like a lovely footballer, Slevin did well when the game was going against us and we know that Mark Barry has immense potential. Even several of the subs looked impressive when they came on. So I wouldn't say things are hopeless at all! If these lads stick with it, I think the future isn't too bad at all.

So there is nothing wrong ? We should stay doing what we are doing ? The bigger picture here involves getting lads to make the jump and go on and make senior intercounty footballers which we are very poor at doing ( example , Tyrell and Dunne the two midfielders last year and another one is Diarmuid Whelan ) these lads so far appear to not be part of any senior plans despite having raw potential  . It’s as if they all fell off a cliff . I don’t want to mention any names but there is a couple of lads last night that I have seen on our senior team recently and they look streets away from what is required to be a senior intercounty footballer . I just think we need proper proper coaches and proper proper S and C coaches to take our lads at 13/14 years of age and develop them properly the whole way to senior . Physically our lads look way off what is required to win in this modern era. It all starts with grassroots and getting the process spot on the whole way up to senior .

[Laoiseabu]

Just to add to my previous post. The Dublin model and the Corofin model are two examples which I really like the look of and we should try to use here in Laois .

[High Fielder]

I saw something very different Giovanni. And I'm seeing it quite a lot; not just in the Under 20s. Other teams are stronger and more tenacious. We are physically weak and getting bullied. There is no doubt that we have skilful footballers in our midst, but as OTH said above, we can get steamrolled. You can be be as fancy as you want but still get tossed aside. You can put in a strong shift and still get out worked. Kildare bullied us and Dublin did the same last night. Their hunger for the ball and the way they hunted for it was something we couldn't live with. I'm under no illusions about that. There is nothing we could have done last night to win that match.

[BallyroanAbu]

Just to add to my previous post. The Dublin model and the Corofin model are two examples which I really like the look of and we should try to use here in Laois .

Like you just rock up and be Corofin or Dublin, not trying to be clever but these are long term philosophies of play that cannot be replicated in a year or two.  I would already say these two models are probably outdated due to the fact that they are currently having success. What topples these models of play is anyone's guess but it won't be replicating them.  Laois to have success must think ahead of the curve and develop players to that model,  I don't think there is the will or interest in that type of development. 

[Giovanni]

Everytime we lose a game the old S&C chestnut is brought up. This goes all the way back to the defeat to Armagh in 2003 when we thought more "meat" would win us games. At least at senior level, we've had brilliant S&C people including people who have been involved in top class set ups (like Sugrue himself). I know less about the underage setup but I just don't believe that we are spending less time in the gym on average or that we have less effective S&C programmes.

I don't believe that the difference is in our S&C regime. The difference is, as HF has pointed out many times, is simply in the numbers. If Laois has 50 credible players, Dublin will have 500. From that 500 you will always be able to find better athletes, bigger lads, stronger lads. There is just a natural advantage there and there's no getting around that no matter how many hours you spend in the gym.

This doesn't mean that it's all hopeless because thankfully the game is about more than just S&C. I would agree with Ballyroan and LaoisAbu is that what's missing is an identifiable model of how to play the game and even more basically a system of training that teaches lads how to respond in different circumstances. Kickouts. Forward movement. Tackling. Defensive systems. Shooting. Confidence and other psychological aspects of the game. These are all things that can be built with good training. Having said that, it's simply not correct to give the impression that the system in Laois is completely defunct- if it was, we wouldn't be producing these players and getting to Leinster Finals every year.

Personally, I'm quite happy that the likes of Tyrell are not making the team yet. Speaking of Corofin and Galway, Ronan Steede has only really now made a breakthough and he will be much the better for it. There's no rush in getting these lads into the team - I have no doubt they will make it before too long.

It's quite possible that there's nothing we could have done to win that game last night but with a few fairly simple improvements, we could have given ourselves a better chance. We tend to overreact to defeats and victories. Last night still gives me hope that we're going in the right direction.

[clonadmad]

Just to add to my previous post. The Dublin model and the Corofin model are two examples which I really like the look of and we should try to use here in Laois .

The Corofin model has been in place since the mid 90’s

They currently have 60 coaches in the juvenile club,vast majority would have award 1 or higher.

There’s a major involvement also with current players mentoring juveniles particularly lads of 15:16/17

This doesn’t get done overnight

[Pugwash]

Personally speaking I think many GAA heads nowadays bang on about tactics far too much, in truth when comparing tactics in the GAA and Soccer for argument sake it's chalk and cheese. In Soccer a managers tactical noose can win multiple games against better opposition, in the GAA this simply isn't the case and more often than not the favourite tends to win time and time again with very few shocks every year in either code of the Senior All Ireland Series.

For me in the GAA anyhow play a tiny part and I think many others need to realise that. I mean you look at the modern game how many forwards in a team can kick a point from play? How many defenders are actually natural born defenders and earn their corn on doing just that? What we have nowadays in the GAA is athletes being moulded into footballers and not footballers being moulded into athletes (with the football too) and it's a damning verdict on the way football is gone. Which highlights so many problems and lack of coaching is the cause.

A senior club will play an ex inter county player €15,0000 a year to manage them, yet the underage teams in the club may struggle for footballs or bibs or a set of new jerseys? To make it worse and I'm not blaming the volunteers who give up multiple hours/days out of their lives to then in turn be held responsible for nurturing the young talent coming through in these clubs, despite having no coaching education or guidance on how to actually coach?

I mean until Laois GAA get tough with clubs and demand anyone that's coaching or involved in an underage set up goes and attends all of these workshops and the county board are sending DO's or whoever around to assess sessions and what not we may as well give it up.

The earlier you catch young players with decent and proper coaching the better the player they become, it's that simple provided all parties are pulling their weight be it play and coach.

Perhaps if Laois even looked at regionalising pockets of the county where the cream of underage talent (before Laois underage set ups) locally from u10s to u13s or whatever get to train even 1 day or evening a week every week with a GDO taking a session? I.E. the elite 5 or 6 players from each club Graigue/Killeshin/Crettyard and then have the same Stradbally/Timahoe/Ballyinan etc (only random examples) where the coaches of these clubs attend to get educated and the kids themselves are getting coached? A win/win imo.

[clonadmad]

Personally speaking I think many GAA heads nowadays bang on about tactics far too much, in truth when comparing tactics in the GAA and Soccer for argument sake it's chalk and cheese. In Soccer a managers tactical noose can win multiple games against better opposition, in the GAA this simply isn't the case and more often than not the favourite tends to win time and time again with very few shocks every year in either code of the Senior All Ireland Series.

For me in the GAA anyhow play a tiny part and I think many others need to realise that. I mean you look at the modern game how many forwards in a team can kick a point from play? How many defenders are actually natural born defenders and earn their corn on doing just that? What we have nowadays in the GAA is athletes being moulded into footballers and not footballers being moulded into athletes (with the football too) and it's a damning verdict on the way football is gone. Which highlights so many problems and lack of coaching is the cause.

A senior club will play an ex inter county player €15,0000 a year to manage them, yet the underage teams in the club may struggle for footballs or bibs or a set of new jerseys? To make it worse and I'm not blaming the volunteers who give up multiple hours/days out of their lives to then in turn be held responsible for nurturing the young talent coming through in these clubs, despite having no coaching education or guidance on how to actually coach?

I mean until Laois GAA get tough with clubs and demand anyone that's coaching or involved in an underage set up goes and attends all of these workshops and the county board are sending DO's or whoever around to assess sessions and what not we may as well give it up.

The earlier you catch young players with decent and proper coaching the better the player they become, it's that simple provided all parties are pulling their weight be it play and coach.

Perhaps if Laois even looked at regionalising pockets of the county where the cream of underage talent (before Laois underage set ups) locally from u10s to u13s or whatever get to train even 1 day or evening a week every week with a GDO taking a session? I.E. the elite 5 or 6 players from each club Graigue/Killeshin/Crettyard and then have the same Stradbally/Timahoe/Ballyinan etc (only random examples) where the coaches of these clubs attend to get educated and the kids themselves are getting coached? A win/win imo.

Are you seriously suggesting you take “ an elite 5 or 6 players” “from clubs and put them in a regional squad and you train these u10’s to u13’s once a week?

Crazy and wrong on some many different levels

[Pugwash]

Personally speaking I think many GAA heads nowadays bang on about tactics far too much, in truth when comparing tactics in the GAA and Soccer for argument sake it's chalk and cheese. In Soccer a managers tactical noose can win multiple games against better opposition, in the GAA this simply isn't the case and more often than not the favourite tends to win time and time again with very few shocks every year in either code of the Senior All Ireland Series.

For me in the GAA anyhow play a tiny part and I think many others need to realise that. I mean you look at the modern game how many forwards in a team can kick a point from play? How many defenders are actually natural born defenders and earn their corn on doing just that? What we have nowadays in the GAA is athletes being moulded into footballers and not footballers being moulded into athletes (with the football too) and it's a damning verdict on the way football is gone. Which highlights so many problems and lack of coaching is the cause.

A senior club will play an ex inter county player €15,0000 a year to manage them, yet the underage teams in the club may struggle for footballs or bibs or a set of new jerseys? To make it worse and I'm not blaming the volunteers who give up multiple hours/days out of their lives to then in turn be held responsible for nurturing the young talent coming through in these clubs, despite having no coaching education or guidance on how to actually coach?

I mean until Laois GAA get tough with clubs and demand anyone that's coaching or involved in an underage set up goes and attends all of these workshops and the county board are sending DO's or whoever around to assess sessions and what not we may as well give it up.

The earlier you catch young players with decent and proper coaching the better the player they become, it's that simple provided all parties are pulling their weight be it play and coach.

Perhaps if Laois even looked at regionalising pockets of the county where the cream of underage talent (before Laois underage set ups) locally from u10s to u13s or whatever get to train even 1 day or evening a week every week with a GDO taking a session? I.E. the elite 5 or 6 players from each club Graigue/Killeshin/Crettyard and then have the same Stradbally/Timahoe/Ballyinan etc (only random examples) where the coaches of these clubs attend to get educated and the kids themselves are getting coached? A win/win imo.

Are you seriously suggesting you take “ an elite 5 or 6 players” “from clubs and put them in a regional squad and you train these u10’s to u13’s once a week?

Crazy and wrong on some many different levels

Crazy and wrong?

From a coaching point of view, how is it wrong if you're giving kids an extra 30-40 hours of football minimum with proper structure and coaching per year?

By age 14/15 most young players have already developed certain bad habits that may potentially be extremely hard to coach out of them, hence why most Soccer Leagues nowadays have county set ups for as young as u12's and would train 1 if not 2 nights a week I'm sure? I know that the LOI clubs all have elite u13 teams who would train upto 3 nights a week, but a typical GAA attitude a sport a million years behind Soccer when it comes to coaching and education will know best I'm sure.

The earlier you bring these players into "elite environments" even strictly from a coaching point of view the quicker they develop.

Could you imagine an 11 year old forward getting advice from a qualified coach on how to use the correct technique to kick a score even for an hour a week? All the while watching others of a similar ages doing the same? Instead of being asked to run laps and being let kick 30 balls wide in a training session without someone being educated and qualified enough to actually go and speak to the child and show them how it's done!

No-one is saying to the take fun out of the sport for the younger ones, but surely to God if we thought outside the box and hired more GDO's and used them in ways like I've said or maybe not but in other ways that we could see real progress in years to come, as the natural talent is definitely in Laois it always has been but it's about maximising it.

[Pugwash]

@Clonadmad, again this is merely a suggestion on my part all hypothetical