Author Topic: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force  (Read 2409 times)

magpie seanie

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2019, 12:55:12 PM »
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.

Iíll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.

What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.


óó

It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.

Itís a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.

It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player canít play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why donít you loaded to the club and county evenly.

The difficulty is more physiological than physical.

County players put in the hard yards all winter and spring with a goal of playing summer football at the highest level.

To then ask them to jump flippantly between club and county, especially in peak season county, it is - in my opinion - more than a touch unfair. Not because of risk of tiredness or injuries (though these are factors), but because asking them to give 100% equally to two causes has to be an emotional drain.

Of course they want to play for their clubs. But during a county championship season, itís surely not just as high on the list of priorities, especially as they progress in the AI series, and dreams come closer to reality, and the intensity required to fulfil that dream requires selfishness.

I was never even remotely good enough at football to put myself on their actual shoes. But anybody who believes that tearing someone in two directions will lead to a fulfilled conclusion in either, is ignoring every rule theyíve learned in life, and creating a special fantasy case for GAA commitment.

óó

Encourage the GAA to wrap up the county season as quick as possible. Encourage the GAA to eliminate as many county teams as early as possible in the summer. Play club GAA with gay abandon while your county team progresses, and then with even gayer abandon when theyíre out.

This is the only way to ensure a regular and fulfilling club season for the 98%.


I don't want to be confrontational but it seems to me you're not following this issue very closely. The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).

Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.

five points

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2019, 01:00:03 PM »
The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).

Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.

When I were a young lad, we often had club league games on the same afternoon as Ulster SFC games. Nobody died. Whether the Ulster SFC takes 2 or 20 weeks to complete shouldn't matter to clubs once common sense is applied elsewhere.

You are correct that the whole issue is very nuanced and detailed.

supersarsfields

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2019, 01:54:38 PM »
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.

If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.

And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.

It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, whatís is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you donít agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?

No agenda here, but you wont get a calendar season with a clear start and finish without first doing a lot of harm. And I don't agree that club players are always getting shafted.  The club scene in most counties, as far as I can see, is thriving. 

Granted, clubs naturally want to have their best/county panel players for as many league games as possible and for the entire championship campaign. If players are going to play for club and county, each has to accommodate the other.

One idea I'd have is for county league promotion and relegation to be based on championship performance. So if you lose league games because you're missing Johnny the county man for a couple of months, you won't be punished.

And I'd ditch the new idea of your national league status impacting on your All Ireland Championship status. If counties want to release players on a rotational basis to allow their club have them for a weekend or two in the spring, they shouldn't be punished either.

Forcing a calendar season means that club championships will be rushed in counties that do well in the intercounty championship. I'd give counties that reach the All Ireland QFs a bye in the early rounds of the club provincial senior championships.

And I'd scrap the intermediate and junior provincial championships, or play them knockout in Jan or Feb.

How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?

five points

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2019, 01:56:23 PM »

How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?

Playoffs, until there's 1, 2 or whatever number left, who go down. Lots of counties have them, including my own.

macdanger2

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2019, 02:36:24 PM »
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.

If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.

And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.

It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, whatís is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you donít agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?

No agenda here, but you wont get a calendar season with a clear start and finish without first doing a lot of harm. And I don't agree that club players are always getting shafted.  The club scene in most counties, as far as I can see, is thriving. 

Granted, clubs naturally want to have their best/county panel players for as many league games as possible and for the entire championship campaign. If players are going to play for club and county, each has to accommodate the other.

One idea I'd have is for county league promotion and relegation to be based on championship performance. So if you lose league games because you're missing Johnny the county man for a couple of months, you won't be punished.

And I'd ditch the new idea of your national league status impacting on your All Ireland Championship status. If counties want to release players on a rotational basis to allow their club have them for a weekend or two in the spring, they shouldn't be punished either.

Forcing a calendar season means that club championships will be rushed in counties that do well in the intercounty championship. I'd give counties that reach the All Ireland QFs a bye in the early rounds of the club provincial senior championships.

And I'd scrap the intermediate and junior provincial championships, or play them knockout in Jan or Feb.

How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?

Doesn't that system make your league competition completely meaningless?

five points

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2019, 02:43:10 PM »
Doesn't that system make your league competition completely meaningless?

Maybe it does, that depends on what you mean by meaningless. If you're in the top division of a league you can't get promoted anyway. Every league has teams who in a given year know they aren't good enough to be promoted and won't get relegated unless the wheels fall off the wagon altogether. These aren't meaningless leagues.

Esmarelda

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2019, 02:56:16 PM »
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.

Iíll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.

What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.


óó

It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.

Itís a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.

It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player canít play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why donít you loaded to the club and county evenly.

The difficulty is more physiological than physical.

County players put in the hard yards all winter and spring with a goal of playing summer football at the highest level.

To then ask them to jump flippantly between club and county, especially in peak season county, it is - in my opinion - more than a touch unfair. Not because of risk of tiredness or injuries (though these are factors), but because asking them to give 100% equally to two causes has to be an emotional drain.

Of course they want to play for their clubs. But during a county championship season, itís surely not just as high on the list of priorities, especially as they progress in the AI series, and dreams come closer to reality, and the intensity required to fulfil that dream requires selfishness.

I was never even remotely good enough at football to put myself on their actual shoes. But anybody who believes that tearing someone in two directions will lead to a fulfilled conclusion in either, is ignoring every rule theyíve learned in life, and creating a special fantasy case for GAA commitment.

óó

Encourage the GAA to wrap up the county season as quick as possible. Encourage the GAA to eliminate as many county teams as early as possible in the summer. Play club GAA with gay abandon while your county team progresses, and then with even gayer abandon when theyíre out.

This is the only way to ensure a regular and fulfilling club season for the 98%.


I don't want to be confrontational but it seems to me you're not following this issue very closely. The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).

Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.
Also not being confrontational, but wasn't this very thing changed two summers ago? The Ulster Championship is no longer played at a rate of one game per week.

Rossfan

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2019, 03:16:38 PM »
Correct.
We shortened the Inter Co Championships then later added 2 extra football rounds and 3 or 4 extra hurling rounds.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

Esmarelda

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2019, 03:56:07 PM »
Correct.
We shortened the Inter Co Championships then later added 2 extra football rounds and 3 or 4 extra hurling rounds.
The net position for the football was a gain of a couple of weeks for each country board to start their championships. The number of rounds is hardly relevant.

Rossfan

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1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

magpie seanie

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2019, 05:54:54 PM »
The detail is here including a link to the full report.

https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-fixtures-calendar-review-taskforce/

seafoid

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Re: CPA Pull out of Fixtures Review Task Force
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2019, 07:34:38 PM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/three-football-championship-proposals-put-forward-by-task-force-1.4104767

The Task Force met on 12 occasions. More than 1,300 members and supporters took part in a detailed online survey and 50 written submissions were received on the subject. The Club Playersí Association were represented on the task force but withdrew in November in protest at what it said was the likely conservative outcome of the final report.
Main intercounty championship proposals
Option 1: A new provincial championship based on four groups of eight that would involve Ulster and Leinster counties migrating to Connacht and Munster to standardise numbers. The method of this redistribution is not specified but it is suggested that league position could be used.
Option 2: Moving the league to the summer months with provincial championships taking place in the spring on a round-robin basis with Munster and Connacht being played in groups of six and Ulster and Leinster in two groups each of five counties. Again an adjustment mechanism would be needed to determine which Leinster county played in Ulster.

Options 1 and 2 would exclude New York from the senior football championship.
Option 3: Retention of the current trial structure on a permanent basis with the All-Ireland quarter-finals being played on a league basis, the Super 8s.
Tweaks include:
Staging the London and New York Connacht championship matches along with other provincial first rounds rather than on the May bank holiday to accommodate teamsí travelling.
Reducing the gap between All-Ireland finals to a week from a fortnight and further tightening the current calendar to create a six-week window for club activity in April and May
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