Author Topic: Kerry Championship  (Read 2319 times)

MayoBuck

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2019, 09:12:10 PM »
Other big counties having 8 senior clubs would only make the problem worse in the intermediate and junior all Ireland championships. Kerry are free to run their championship however they want but the likes of Templenoe shouldn't be allowed compete in an intermediate championship outside the Kerry.

Why not? 

Less than a decade ago Templenoe languished in division 5 of the Kerry county league...48 teams ahead of them. 

Here's their rise through the club championship ranks in Kerry, remember that the only way to move up a grade is to win your current competition:

2013 Won Novice, promoted to Junior
2014 Lost Junior quarter final
2015 Won Junior, and won All-Ireland Junior title (beating Ardnaree Sarsfields from Mayo in the final by 4-13 to 1-9)

2016 Lost Intermediate final to Kenmare Shamrocks
2017 Lost Intermediate final to An Ghaeltacht
2018 Lost Intermediate semi-final to Kilcummin

2019 Won Intermediate (beating An Ghaeltacht in the final)
2020 Will play Senior club championship

From 2020 onwards does not paint a pretty picture as population is declining rapidly.  It is almost a freak coincidence that a small rural club can provide 4 players to the county team panel.  Without the 4 county men, Templenoe were relegated from div 1 this year...indeed they could not field a team one August weekend and had to forfeit...something unheard of in the top 3 or 4 divisions, let alone division 1.

If Kerry had 12 senior teams, then Templenoe would have won novice, junior and intermediate a few years earlier...that's the only difference in my view.

There are stories that Kerry will realign divisions and increase the number of senior clubs soon, but I cannot confirm, or even quote a source, on that.

It's nothing against Templenoe, fair play to them for having a golden generation. The issue is with the 9th best club in Kerry competing at intermediate level outside the county.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 10:45:12 PM by MayoBuck »

Angelo

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2019, 09:34:57 PM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.

armaghniac

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2019, 09:50:32 PM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.

It is not "designed" to create an advantage in intermediate and junior level and in the AI series, but that may be a consequence of it.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2019, 10:30:00 PM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.
Also helps their county junior team a lot

Angelo

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2019, 10:43:46 PM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.

It is not "designed" to create an advantage in intermediate and junior level and in the AI series, but that may be a consequence of it.

I would feel it is. It's designed to give all their club sides an advantage on the AI scene.

Rossfan

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2019, 11:44:19 PM »
Only 3 of their Clubs get to play in the "All Ireland scene" which is just a bonus add on thingy anyway.
The real competition for Club teams is their own County Championships.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

macdanger2

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2019, 12:06:14 AM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.

It is not "designed" to create an advantage in intermediate and junior level and in the AI series, but that may be a consequence of it.

I would feel it is. It's designed to give all their club sides an advantage on the AI scene.

Open to correction but I think they "designed" this system before the inter and junior club AIs even existed. Sneaky kerry hoors

Ball Hopper

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2019, 01:43:45 AM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.

It is not "designed" to create an advantage in intermediate and junior level and in the AI series, but that may be a consequence of it.

I would feel it is. It's designed to give all their club sides an advantage on the AI scene.

Open to correction but I think they "designed" this system before the inter and junior club AIs even existed. Sneaky kerry hoors

Yes indeed...and then it was Sean Kelly who brought in the club All-Ireland...plan took 80 years or so, but we got there. 

How many Kerry GAA Presidents before Sean, you ask? 

None.

Obviously.

imtommygunn

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2019, 09:15:59 AM »
I don't think there are many more than ten in Antrim.

What was their structure before the intermediate and junior all Ireland came in. If it was different they are rigging it otherwise they are not -simple as that!

Owenmoresider

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2019, 09:37:16 AM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

But none do, to me it reeks of manipulation.

No county to my knowledge has a senior championship with less that 10 teams in it other than Kerry and Kerry is a county with a huge football tradition, a big population and a huge number of clubs. It's designed to manipulate their advantage at intermediate and junior level and in the AI series and I don't think they should be permitted to enter clubs in junior and intermediate AI level while they run their senior championship is such a closed shop manner.
Fermanagh, Offaly and Carlow.

outinfront

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2019, 08:35:35 PM »
My ranking of the importance of Kerry's competitions to players:

1) County Championship
2) Club championships, senior, intermediate, premier junior, junior, novice
3) divisional championships
4) county league
5) divisional league

My opinion is all...some might switch 2 and 3.

More questions:
Are the divisional championships played between club teams in that Divisional area as oppose to between divisional sides?

Do club senior teams play in all these championships? Is there separate reserve teams or what?

Is there a divisional teams only competition?

Finally, is there a reason the County Championship is played this time of year? Weather being shite and all that.

Rossfan

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2019, 09:12:44 PM »
To your last question Kerry were in the All Ireland Final which went to a replay .
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

twohands!!!

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2019, 09:24:30 PM »

Also helps their county junior team a lot

There are only 5 counties who take part in the Junior All-Ireland who are restricted to intermediate and junior players (Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Galway and Meath)
Every other county can pick players from senior teams.

I don't think there are many more than ten in Antrim.

What was their structure before the intermediate and junior all Ireland came in. If it was different they are rigging it otherwise they are not -simple as that!

They've had divisional clubs in Kerry way back before the intermediate and junior all-Ireland came in.
The first senior club All-Ireland was actually won by East Kerry.

I'm convinced that the divisional structures are a huge part in Kerry's intercounty success.

I was thinking about all this structure business today and I was wondering if there was any possibility of the GAA introducing a 4th (and possibly a 5th) level of club All-Ireland competitions.

Donnellys Hollow

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2019, 09:29:10 PM »

Also helps their county junior team a lot

There are only 5 counties who take part in the Junior All-Ireland who are restricted to intermediate and junior players (Kerry, Cork, Mayo, Galway and Meath)
Every other county can pick players from senior teams.

+ Kildare
There's Seán Brady going in, what dya think Seán?

Ball Hopper

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2019, 09:33:18 PM »
My ranking of the importance of Kerry's competitions to players:

1) County Championship
2) Club championships, senior, intermediate, premier junior, junior, novice
3) divisional championships
4) county league
5) divisional league

My opinion is all...some might switch 2 and 3.

More questions:
Are the divisional championships played between club teams in that Divisional area as oppose to between divisional sides?

Do club senior teams play in all these championships? Is there separate reserve teams or what?

Is there a divisional teams only competition?

Finally, is there a reason the County Championship is played this time of year? Weather being shite and all that.

Divisional Championships are played within each division only and usually occur in November/December.  The North Kerry championship is often described as the toughest football championship to win (and equally tough to play in, by some reports), although the quality has dipped in the last few years.  This year, East Kerry championship is at quarter-final stage right now, with Dr. Crokes playing Kilcummin this Saturday 16 Nov.  South Kerry's championship often concludes on St. Stephen's Day, much to the delight of visitors - AZ can add more on the local rivalries in that corner of the world.

Senior teams only in divisional championships.  There are very few "reserve" teams in Kerry (referred to as B teams), with one major exception in Dr. Crokes B playing in Division 2 of the County League this year.  Most B teams (and a Dr. Crokes C team)  play in Division 5 of the county league and have no other games.  Kerry clubs also have a Friday night junior league to play in, run by the County Board, but I'm not certain what qualifies or prevents a player in participating and not all clubs field a team.  The county board are missing a trick in not getting those Friday night games on some sort of broadcast - "Friday Night Fights by Players Not So Light".

I might add that a club's senior team in Kerry is what you might call the first team - even if in division 5 of the county league.  So the Kilgarvan senior team plays in the county novice championship...ok?

No divisional teams competition exists at this time, although back a few decades there was a "Kerryman Shield" competition to give the divisional sides competitive action before the county championship started up.

Regarding timing of the county championship, that is entirely driven by the county team's exit from the All-Ireland.  Pre-Super 8's, the first round was always held the week after the Munster Final which greatly helped the back end of the championship. 

This year saw the first round set for 14/15 September (All-Ireland final on 1 Sept), but the replay scuppered that.  Instead Rounds 1, 2 and 3 were played on consecutive weekends starting the weekend after the All-Ireland replay.  One Rd 3 game was postponed a week, but all quarter finals were played on 19/20 October.  Semi-finals the following weekend, with one replay on 3 Nov.  Final on 10 November and Munster club game for Kerry representatives (Austin Stacks) on 17 November, since they won the Club championship back in April (senior, intermediate, premier junior, junior and novice championships held and completed in April).

A Dr. Crokes player on the county team has played 6 county championship games since the All-Ireland replay on 15 September, and has an East Kerry quarter final this Saturday and they will be hoping for more games into December.

Weather has not caused any postponements so far, shite and all as it might be.

EDIT:  I must add that each divisional area also runs a league competition, usually held in February/early March before the county league starts.  In East Kerry, it is known as the East Kerry Super League...no premierships or any ordinary titles.  A good preseason-type tournament that gets each club 4 or 5 games early in the year.


« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:01:59 PM by Ball Hopper »