Author Topic: Kerry Championship  (Read 2300 times)

blanketattack

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 02:33:24 PM »
Kerry should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series as they have a completely unfair advantage due to their Championship structure.

Effectively the 9th best club in Kerry would face the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc which is unfair.

What's the reason Dublin don't have representatives at inter and junior level in rte AI series.

It's also very unfair for Dublin and Cork clubs where their 33rd and 25th best club effectively are taking on the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc.
Tyrone, Mayo, Meath, etc. should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series.

The Dublin teams do enter the provincial c'ship but usually lose early on.
The Dublin intermediate champions Ballyboughal  lost to the Kilkenny senior champions (senior) Mullinavat by a goal after going down 3-6 to 0-1 after 20 min!

Dublin are weak are these grades due to having so many senior clubs but also because of the super clubs which might have up to 6 adult teams.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 02:36:40 PM »
Kerry should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series as they have a completely unfair advantage due to their Championship structure.

Effectively the 9th best club in Kerry would face the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc which is unfair.

What's the reason Dublin don't have representatives at inter and junior level in rte AI series.

I watched their senior final as well as both semis due to being televised, it was of extremely poor quality. The club scene there on that viewing is not great - surprisingly so if I'm being honest. St Vincents v St Judes was absolutely shocking.

Obviously however they have all correct with regards to IC scene.

MayoBuck

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 03:22:30 PM »
Kerry should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series as they have a completely unfair advantage due to their Championship structure.

Effectively the 9th best club in Kerry would face the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc which is unfair.

What's the reason Dublin don't have representatives at inter and junior level in rte AI series.

It's also very unfair for Dublin and Cork clubs where their 33rd and 25th best club effectively are taking on the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc.
Tyrone, Mayo, Meath, etc. should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series.

The Dublin teams do enter the provincial c'ship but usually lose early on.
The Dublin intermediate champions Ballyboughal  lost to the Kilkenny senior champions (senior) Mullinavat by a goal after going down 3-6 to 0-1 after 20 min!

Dublin are weak are these grades due to having so many senior clubs but also because of the super clubs which might have up to 6 adult teams.

Dublin and Cork probably have the 2 biggest football playing populations so should have more than 16 senior clubs. The likes of Leitrim, Fermanagh would be more than entitled to only have 8. Kerry are the biggest anomaly though as they should have far more than 8 to keep the All Ireland intermediate and junior championships fair.

five points

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 03:41:33 PM »

Dublin and Cork probably have the 2 biggest football playing populations so should have more than 16 senior clubs. The likes of Leitrim, Fermanagh would be more than entitled to only have 8. Kerry are the biggest anomaly though as they should have far more than 8 to keep the All Ireland intermediate and junior championships fair.

These competitions will never be fair. They were created by a Kerry GAA President to suit Kerry teams.

LeoMc

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 03:51:28 PM »
Kerry should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series as they have a completely unfair advantage due to their Championship structure.

Effectively the 9th best club in Kerry would face the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc which is unfair.

What's the reason Dublin don't have representatives at inter and junior level in rte AI series.

I watched their senior final as well as both semis due to being televised, it was of extremely poor quality. The club scene there on that viewing is not great - surprisingly so if I'm being honest. St Vincents v St Judes was absolutely shocking.

Obviously however they have all correct with regards to IC scene.
I thought that initially but there was a high level of intensity which impacted the quality imo. Players had no time on the ball to look up and make the pass.

twohands!!!

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2019, 04:08:40 PM »
Kerry should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series as they have a completely unfair advantage due to their Championship structure.

Effectively the 9th best club in Kerry would face the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc which is unfair.

What's the reason Dublin don't have representatives at inter and junior level in rte AI series.

It's also very unfair for Dublin and Cork clubs where their 33rd and 25th best club effectively are taking on the 17th best club in the likes of Tyrone, Mayo, Meath etc.
Tyrone, Mayo, Meath, etc. should not be allowed enter teams in the intermediate and junior All Ireland series.

The Dublin teams do enter the provincial c'ship but usually lose early on.
The Dublin intermediate champions Ballyboughal  lost to the Kilkenny senior champions (senior) Mullinavat by a goal after going down 3-6 to 0-1 after 20 min!

Dublin are weak are these grades due to having so many senior clubs but also because of the super clubs which might have up to 6 adult teams.

The issue with both Dublin and Cork its they call their 2nd tier county championship a senior competition.
Dublin call their 1st tier Senior 1 and Cork call it Premier Senior.
Dublin call their 2nd tier Senior 2 and Cork call it Senior A.
Croke Park should tell counties - senior is reserved for the top tier competition - less of the false advertising.
I doubt there would be all that much opposition to the winners of Dublin's 2nd tier and Cork's 2nd tier entering the intermediate provincial competitions and their third tier entering the Junior provincials as opposed to the current system where their third tier teams enter the 2nd tier of provincial competitions.










general_lee

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2019, 04:20:23 PM »
So do they Kerry senior club champions just train away on the off-chance that a divisional side might win the senior football championship? Where do the east Kerry go for their post match celebrations?

Austin Stacks played their final county league game on Saturday...a facile 4-15 to 1-6 victory over already relegated St. Mary's Caherciveen.  They were put out of the county championship on 29 September, losing to eventual champions East Kerry by 3-13 to 3-7. 

East Kerry are sponsored by The Shire Bar in Killarney, so I imagine that's where celebrations started/ended.
And Caherciveen, would they be a junior club? Is league football taken seriously in Kerry? Like how does a division 1 club keep its players motivated when one week they’re playing a proper “senior” club and the next they’re playing a junior club. Do they just field weakened teams?

MayoBuck

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2019, 04:26:28 PM »
So do they Kerry senior club champions just train away on the off-chance that a divisional side might win the senior football championship? Where do the east Kerry go for their post match celebrations?

Austin Stacks played their final county league game on Saturday...a facile 4-15 to 1-6 victory over already relegated St. Mary's Caherciveen.  They were put out of the county championship on 29 September, losing to eventual champions East Kerry by 3-13 to 3-7. 

East Kerry are sponsored by The Shire Bar in Killarney, so I imagine that's where celebrations started/ended.
And Caherciveen, would they be a junior club? Is league football taken seriously in Kerry? Like how does a division 1 club keep its players motivated when one week they’re playing a proper “senior” club and the next they’re playing a junior club. Do they just field weakened teams?

That would be normal in a lot of counties. In mayo Colm Boyle's club Davitts are senior but play in division 3 of the league. While there are intermediate clubs in division 1, junior clubs in division 2 etc.

Ball Hopper

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2019, 04:58:08 PM »
My ranking of the importance of Kerry's competitions to players:

1) County Championship
2) Club championships, senior, intermediate, premier junior, junior, novice
3) divisional championships
4) county league
5) divisional league

My opinion is all...some might switch 2 and 3.

AZOffaly

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2019, 07:18:31 PM »
From my experience, 1 & 3 are almost equal footing and ahead of 2. Unless you are a 'big' club, then 1 is obviously clear ahead. I know in Dromid, if you offered them a choice, it would be fairly 50-50 whether they'd like a South Kerry Championship, or to play with South Kerry and win a championship. And South Kerry has a very definite identity, as it's all more or less based around Cahirciveen. They all go to school there, shop there, nightclub there etc. the Geographic circumstances of the Iveragh penninsula contributes definitely. I'm not sure a Feale Rangers or Saint Brendans or even East Kerry would have that same sense of identity.

The Mary's chose not to play senior county championship I think, is that correct?

I see the point that some lads make about the inherent advantages a Kerry champion in the lower grades have, but I think those lads are assuming way too much about the importance of the County League. Clubs in Kerry are rated on their championship performance, and it's completely separate from the Championships.

Angelo

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2019, 07:32:25 PM »
From my experience, 1 & 3 are almost equal footing and ahead of 2. Unless you are a 'big' club, then 1 is obviously clear ahead. I know in Dromid, if you offered them a choice, it would be fairly 50-50 whether they'd like a South Kerry Championship, or to play with South Kerry and win a championship. And South Kerry has a very definite identity, as it's all more or less based around Cahirciveen. They all go to school there, shop there, nightclub there etc. the Geographic circumstances of the Iveragh penninsula contributes definitely. I'm not sure a Feale Rangers or Saint Brendans or even East Kerry would have that same sense of identity.

The Mary's chose not to play senior county championship I think, is that correct?

I see the point that some lads make about the inherent advantages a Kerry champion in the lower grades have, but I think those lads are assuming way too much about the importance of the County League. Clubs in Kerry are rated on their championship performance, and it's completely separate from the Championships.

The 9th best club in Kerry get put through into the intermediate grade every year. I don't think Kerry should be allowed enter teams into the All Ireland series. You could maybe understand it if it was Leitrim, Longford or Fermanagh who have small picks but Kerry is a football mad county with a huge number of clubs, they should not be allowed manipulate the system. It's fine if they want to do their own thing with their county championship but it's not a level playing field when it comes to intermediate and junior provincial and All Ireland series.

Angelo

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2019, 07:33:12 PM »
Is there another county championship with under 10 clubs taking part?

Ball Hopper

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2019, 08:22:26 PM »
Nothing to stop any county limiting the clubs to 8 in their championship, although creating divisional sides cannot be easy when starting it off.

Kerry have had divisional sides forever almost...the underlying premise being that a good player, no matter how poor his club team. will have the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage.   Like the soccer players, it was his only chance to "be seen" by county selectors.

If a divisional side made it to the semi-finals of the county championship, you'd always see one or two of previously unknown players getting a run in the league games before Christmas.  The fact that they'd be fitter due to being involved in the late stages of the county championship would only help themselves and the county in the league game as well.

Another unrelated theory was that a county minor should be making a good impression in the senior championship the same year.

MayoBuck

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2019, 08:33:10 PM »
Other big counties having 8 senior clubs would only make the problem worse in the intermediate and junior all Ireland championships. Kerry are free to run their championship however they want but the likes of Templenoe shouldn't be allowed compete in an intermediate championship outside the Kerry.

Ball Hopper

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Re: Kerry Championship
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2019, 09:05:05 PM »
Other big counties having 8 senior clubs would only make the problem worse in the intermediate and junior all Ireland championships. Kerry are free to run their championship however they want but the likes of Templenoe shouldn't be allowed compete in an intermediate championship outside the Kerry.

Why not? 

Less than a decade ago Templenoe languished in division 5 of the Kerry county league...48 teams ahead of them. 

Here's their rise through the club championship ranks in Kerry, remember that the only way to move up a grade is to win your current competition:

2013 Won Novice, promoted to Junior
2014 Lost Junior quarter final
2015 Won Junior, and won All-Ireland Junior title (beating Ardnaree Sarsfields from Mayo in the final by 4-13 to 1-9)

2016 Lost Intermediate final to Kenmare Shamrocks
2017 Lost Intermediate final to An Ghaeltacht
2018 Lost Intermediate semi-final to Kilcummin

2019 Won Intermediate (beating An Ghaeltacht in the final)
2020 Will play Senior club championship

From 2020 onwards does not paint a pretty picture as population is declining rapidly.  It is almost a freak coincidence that a small rural club can provide 4 players to the county team panel.  Without the 4 county men, Templenoe were relegated from div 1 this year...indeed they could not field a team one August weekend and had to forfeit...something unheard of in the top 3 or 4 divisions, let alone division 1.

If Kerry had 12 senior teams, then Templenoe would have won novice, junior and intermediate a few years earlier...that's the only difference in my view.

There are stories that Kerry will realign divisions and increase the number of senior clubs soon, but I cannot confirm, or even quote a source, on that.