Author Topic: Ulster Club SFC 2019  (Read 54980 times)

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2019, 05:45:22 PM »
Some of my fellow countymen (and a few others) it seems either keep falling into the trap that arguably the most competitive championship = the championship with the highest quality teams, or are suffering from delusion.

The Ulster intercounty SFC during the 80's was the most competitive in Ireland, but whoever won it struggled at the All-Ireland stage. Only facing the Connacht champions in the semi final gave the Ulster winners any real hope of making it to the final.

In terms of the roll of honour in Tyrone in the last decade & a half, there is a wide variety of teams that have won the O'Neill Cup (Tyrone SFC cup) but no team has been able to retain the trophy since Carrickmore did so in 2005. In this years' county SFC, prior to the first game there was around 6-8 teams that you could say had a reasonable chance of claiming honours in the end, Trillick being one of them. However, the last of these winners that came close to provincial success was Omagh when they were defeated by Slaughtneil in the final.

Is it an advantage to be a "big fish in a small pond" thus being regular participants in the Ulster club? I'd say usually it does - but it doesn't always be, Cavan Gaels were dominating Cavan not too long ago but struggled to translate their county dominance in Ulster.

The fact is that Tyrone's representatives in the Ulster Club SFC have in general not been good enough when it has come to the crunch, only Errigal Ciaran have proven themselves at that level. No amount of sugar coating, some threadbare excuses or ridiculous suggestions that winning the Tyrone SFC is harder than the Ulster Club SFC can argue with historical competition results.

Having said that, I do think Trillick have a half decent shot this year. Never a bunch to lack self-confidence, they'll look forward to playing Derrygonnelly. Given how many from Trillick work or be educated in Enniskillen, both sides will know quite a few players in opposition and Trillick will get a rare chance to play a Fermanagh club in a competitive match. Brewster Park should be buzzing on Sunday week.
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marty34

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2019, 06:21:12 PM »
Some of my fellow countymen (and a few others) it seems either keep falling into the trap that arguably the most competitive championship = the championship with the highest quality teams, or are suffering from delusion.

The Ulster intercounty SFC during the 80's was the most competitive in Ireland, but whoever won it struggled at the All-Ireland stage. Only facing the Connacht champions in the semi final gave the Ulster winners any real hope of making it to the final.

In terms of the roll of honour in Tyrone in the last decade & a half, there is a wide variety of teams that have won the O'Neill Cup (Tyrone SFC cup) but no team has been able to retain the trophy since Carrickmore did so in 2005. In this years' county SFC, prior to the first game there was around 6-8 teams that you could say had a reasonable chance of claiming honours in the end, Trillick being one of them. However, the last of these winners that came close to provincial success was Omagh when they were defeated by Slaughtneil in the final.

Is it an advantage to be a "big fish in a small pond" thus being regular participants in the Ulster club? I'd say usually it does - but it doesn't always be, Cavan Gaels were dominating Cavan not too long ago but struggled to translate their county dominance in Ulster.

The fact is that Tyrone's representatives in the Ulster Club SFC have in general not been good enough when it has come to the crunch, only Errigal Ciaran have proven themselves at that level. No amount of sugar coating, some threadbare excuses or ridiculous suggestions that winning the Tyrone SFC is harder than the Ulster Club SFC can argue with historical competition results.

Having said that, I do think Trillick have a half decent shot this year. Never a bunch to lack self-confidence, they'll look forward to playing Derrygonnelly. Given how many from Trillick work or be educated in Enniskillen, both sides will know quite a few players in opposition and Trillick will get a rare chance to play a Fermanagh club in a competitive match. Brewster Park should be buzzing on Sunday week.

Fair comment Fionntamhnach.

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2019, 06:36:30 PM »
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and havenít won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesnít make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  Iíd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

NEWTOWNBUTLER   ???

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Derrygonnelly!!

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2019, 06:39:33 PM »
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and havenít won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesnít make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  Iíd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

What's Cross record like against Tyrone teams, think Errigal have beaten them twice and Omagh once.

I would imagine a side like Omagh would have won an Ulster club if they were in another county championship a few years back - teams like Cross, Slaughtneil, Kilcoo, Scotstown are back every year and that is more an indication of the lack of competition in their county championship.

EC beat us twice and Omagh beat us once. We beat EC, Dromore, Killcogher, think thatís it but not 100% sure about that.

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2019, 06:51:31 PM »
Some of my fellow countymen (and a few others) it seems either keep falling into the trap that arguably the most competitive championship = the championship with the highest quality teams, or are suffering from delusion.

The Ulster intercounty SFC during the 80's was the most competitive in Ireland, but whoever won it struggled at the All-Ireland stage. Only facing the Connacht champions in the semi final gave the Ulster winners any real hope of making it to the final.

In terms of the roll of honour in Tyrone in the last decade & a half, there is a wide variety of teams that have won the O'Neill Cup (Tyrone SFC cup) but no team has been able to retain the trophy since Carrickmore did so in 2005. In this years' county SFC, prior to the first game there was around 6-8 teams that you could say had a reasonable chance of claiming honours in the end, Trillick being one of them. However, the last of these winners that came close to provincial success was Omagh when they were defeated by Slaughtneil in the final.

Is it an advantage to be a "big fish in a small pond" thus being regular participants in the Ulster club? I'd say usually it does - but it doesn't always be, Cavan Gaels were dominating Cavan not too long ago but struggled to translate their county dominance in Ulster.

The fact is that Tyrone's representatives in the Ulster Club SFC have in general not been good enough when it has come to the crunch, only Errigal Ciaran have proven themselves at that level. No amount of sugar coating, some threadbare excuses or ridiculous suggestions that winning the Tyrone SFC is harder than the Ulster Club SFC can argue with historical competition results.

Having said that, I do think Trillick have a half decent shot this year. Never a bunch to lack self-confidence, they'll look forward to playing Derrygonnelly. Given how many from Trillick work or be educated in Enniskillen, both sides will know quite a few players in opposition and Trillick will get a rare chance to play a Fermanagh club in a competitive match. Brewster Park should be buzzing on Sunday week.

Tyrone clubs generally compete fairly well regardless of who goes forward, they are very rarely given a big beating and usually pick up a few wins along the way. The fact is Tyrone have probably 5 or 6 clubs who can come out of the county championship and give a good account of themselves along the way, I don't think another county in Ulster can say the same. I think when you are regularly winning your county title, then you are looking beyond that and are tailoring your plans for a tilt at Ulster.

under the bar

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2019, 08:34:46 PM »
Tyrone and Donegal have wiped their asses with every other Ulster team they've met in the past decade and they probably both have the most competitive club championships in Ulster.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2019, 09:13:02 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Hoof Hearted

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2019, 09:38:52 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

I agree it was fun reading
9 best teams in the province playing against each other
Best team wins - simples
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imtommygunn

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2019, 09:48:49 PM »
Tyrone and Donegal have wiped their asses with every other Ulster team they've met in the past decade and they probably both have the most competitive club championships in Ulster.

Decade... Monaghan may debate that.

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2019, 11:01:32 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

You're talking about individual clubs. It's like saying Leinster football or Munster football are the strongest footballing provinces because of Dublin and Kerry when the reality is that Ulster is the strongest and Connacht is probably next up.

The likes of Cross, Slaughtneil, Scotstown and Kilcoo have made fairly handy work of their county championships in recent years, they have been able to reserve their energy and have their focus set on Ulster, they have been able to build up experience of the Ulster club championship along the way. That certainly gives them a big advantage.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2019, 11:14:09 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

You're talking about individual clubs. It's like saying Leinster football or Munster football are the strongest footballing provinces because of Dublin and Kerry when the reality is that Ulster is the strongest and Connacht is probably next up.

The likes of Cross, Slaughtneil, Scotstown and Kilcoo have made fairly handy work of their county championships in recent years, they have been able to reserve their energy and have their focus set on Ulster, they have been able to build up experience of the Ulster club championship along the way. That certainly gives them a big advantage.

Trilick, judging by their championship results, had one close game, one point win over Coalisland being their toughest game. Any extra time or replayís? And based on your assessment (which is laughable) Derrygonelly are odds on favourites to beat any Tyrone team due to the fact theyíve won 5 in a row and having greater experience in Ulster!?
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:37 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

You're talking about individual clubs. It's like saying Leinster football or Munster football are the strongest footballing provinces because of Dublin and Kerry when the reality is that Ulster is the strongest and Connacht is probably next up.

The likes of Cross, Slaughtneil, Scotstown and Kilcoo have made fairly handy work of their county championships in recent years, they have been able to reserve their energy and have their focus set on Ulster, they have been able to build up experience of the Ulster club championship along the way. That certainly gives them a big advantage.

Trilick, judging by their championship results, had one close game, one point win over Coalisland being their toughest game. Any extra time or replayís? And based on your assessment (which is laughable) Derrygonelly are odds on favourites to beat any Tyrone team due to the fact theyíve won 5 in a row and having greater experience in Ulster!?

I didn't say that.

I said Derrygonelly are much more experienced than Trillick at this level and that is certainly one advantage they will have over them.

Trillick also had a very tough game against Clonoe and an injury time goal put a bit of gloss on what was a very close quarter final.

Walter Cronc

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2019, 11:22:55 PM »
I certainly wouldn't underestimate Derrygonnelly. From chatting to Slaughtneil people I think they met twice in Ulster and proved very tricky both times.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2019, 11:31:31 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

You're talking about individual clubs. It's like saying Leinster football or Munster football are the strongest footballing provinces because of Dublin and Kerry when the reality is that Ulster is the strongest and Connacht is probably next up.

The likes of Cross, Slaughtneil, Scotstown and Kilcoo have made fairly handy work of their county championships in recent years, they have been able to reserve their energy and have their focus set on Ulster, they have been able to build up experience of the Ulster club championship along the way. That certainly gives them a big advantage.

Trilick, judging by their championship results, had one close game, one point win over Coalisland being their toughest game. Any extra time or replayís? And based on your assessment (which is laughable) Derrygonelly are odds on favourites to beat any Tyrone team due to the fact theyíve won 5 in a row and having greater experience in Ulster!?

I didn't say that.

I said Derrygonelly are much more experienced than Trillick at this level and that is certainly one advantage they will have over them.

Trillick also had a very tough game against Clonoe and an injury time goal put a bit of gloss on what was a very close quarter final.

They played 4 games beat Clonoe 2-11 1-09, very close, even with a late goal ffs! 4 games?

Look what is the point of even entering the Ulster club? If any manager is worth his salt heíll be preparing a team for every eventuality
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2019, 11:47:24 PM »
Oh that was a lovely few minutes reading! Arguing that because theyíve the best county championship they then canít win Ulster because the club canít get a run at it, as the same team canít retain their club championship?

Either youíre good enough to win another 3/4 games or youíre not! Worst record in Ulster club. Thatís the basics of it

You're talking about individual clubs. It's like saying Leinster football or Munster football are the strongest footballing provinces because of Dublin and Kerry when the reality is that Ulster is the strongest and Connacht is probably next up.

The likes of Cross, Slaughtneil, Scotstown and Kilcoo have made fairly handy work of their county championships in recent years, they have been able to reserve their energy and have their focus set on Ulster, they have been able to build up experience of the Ulster club championship along the way. That certainly gives them a big advantage.

Trilick, judging by their championship results, had one close game, one point win over Coalisland being their toughest game. Any extra time or replayís? And based on your assessment (which is laughable) Derrygonelly are odds on favourites to beat any Tyrone team due to the fact theyíve won 5 in a row and having greater experience in Ulster!?

I didn't say that.

I said Derrygonelly are much more experienced than Trillick at this level and that is certainly one advantage they will have over them.

Trillick also had a very tough game against Clonoe and an injury time goal put a bit of gloss on what was a very close quarter final.

They played 4 games beat Clonoe 2-11 1-09, very close, even with a late goal ffs! 4 games?

Look what is the point of even entering the Ulster club? If any manager is worth his salt heíll be preparing a team for every eventuality

A goal in the 8th minute of injury time might distort the picture on the Clonoe game which was a very tight affair throughout. They played four knockout games, two were very close, even matches, one was a hammering and the other was fairly comfortable. Trillick beat Clonoe by more than they beat Errigal but it's certainly fair to say Clonoe asked much more questions of them.

The first priority of a manager of a Tyrone club is the county championship, if you start looking beyond that before you have accomplished it then you can forget about Ulster. Tyrone clubs don't have the luxury of soft county titles, Carrickmore are the last club in Tyrone to defend a championship and that's back in 2005.