Author Topic: Ulster Club SFC 2019  (Read 27237 times)

cornerback

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #480 on: November 06, 2019, 09:53:01 AM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.

I agree with that to a certain extent but ulster is littered with champions that have little or no experience of competing at that level:
Gaoth Dobhair 2018
Slaughtneil 2014
Loup 2003
Ballinderry 2001
Dungiven 1997
Crossmaglen 1996
Mullaghbawn 1995
Bellaghy 1994
Errigal Ciaran 1993
So in the past 25 years a third of the champions have "came from nowhere"

Then you have the clubs that have gained plenty of experience at ulster club level but haven't had the breakthrough
Cargin
Scotstown
St Eunan's
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Roslea
Enniskillen Gaels
Derrygonnelly
Castleblayney (post '91 team)

seafoid

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #481 on: November 06, 2019, 10:55:32 AM »
Corofin and Dr Crokes miles ahead of ulster at present. Probably dublin champions too.
Corofin won't be going forever. Whoever wins Ulster this year could start a tradition. Gaoth Dobhair will return as well at some stage.
How could a tradition be started? The only team (out of the remaining) that has been to an ulster final in the last five years (and lost) is Kilcoo.. So I am struggling to see how a tradition could be started?
It happens all the time in every sport.
They all have to start somewhere,
Cross won their first all Ireland in 97
Corofin in 98. They didn't know at the time that they would win multiple all Irelands.
Maybe Kilcoo aren't good enough. Let's see 
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imtommygunn

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #482 on: November 06, 2019, 11:09:19 AM »
They have shown time and again they aren't. That cross team didn't take years to win it.

Angelo

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #483 on: November 06, 2019, 11:36:05 AM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.

I agree with that to a certain extent but ulster is littered with champions that have little or no experience of competing at that level:
Gaoth Dobhair 2018
Slaughtneil 2014
Loup 2003
Ballinderry 2001
Dungiven 1997
Crossmaglen 1996
Mullaghbawn 1995
Bellaghy 1994
Errigal Ciaran 1993
So in the past 25 years a third of the champions have "came from nowhere"

Then you have the clubs that have gained plenty of experience at ulster club level but haven't had the breakthrough
Cargin
Scotstown
St Eunan's
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Roslea
Enniskillen Gaels
Derrygonnelly
Castleblayney (post '91 team)


I think you need to view it in context. A lot of those champions won in periods where there weren't any dominant teams in Ulster so things were on a fairly even playing field. Experience is a massive advantage at provincial level.

square_ball

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #484 on: November 06, 2019, 11:50:27 AM »
Experience is overrated.

Main Street

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #485 on: November 06, 2019, 01:13:45 PM »
How about settling the game the way the Ladies hockey was decided the other night. Players attacking from the 50 one on one with a time limit. Or my preference would be 3 attacks each, 2 forwards attacking 2 defenders and GK. Goals only and no time limit. Would be great to watch imo
Back in mid 70s in the days of Pele and the MLS, drawn games were settled by a similar shoot out, a  player "would start at the 35-yard line and attempt his shot within five seconds".  Franz Beckenbauer, with no little contempt for this modification never mind the indignity of the task, strolled up to the ball and whacked it straight into the back of the net.

topofthesoil

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #486 on: November 07, 2019, 10:05:29 AM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.


exactly, Magherafelt and Trillick would be extremely fortunate to make it out of there counties again next year or the following
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:00:52 AM by topofthesoil »

shark

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #487 on: November 07, 2019, 10:33:23 AM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.

I agree with that to a certain extent but ulster is littered with champions that have little or no experience of competing at that level:
Gaoth Dobhair 2018
Slaughtneil 2014
Loup 2003
Ballinderry 2001
Dungiven 1997
Crossmaglen 1996
Mullaghbawn 1995
Bellaghy 1994
Errigal Ciaran 1993
So in the past 25 years a third of the champions have "came from nowhere"

Then you have the clubs that have gained plenty of experience at ulster club level but haven't had the breakthrough
Cargin
Scotstown
St Eunan's
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Roslea
Enniskillen Gaels
Derrygonnelly
Castleblayney (post '91 team)


I think you need to view it in context. A lot of those champions won in periods where there weren't any dominant teams in Ulster so things were on a fairly even playing field. Experience is a massive advantage at provincial level.

In Leinster, if you exclude Dublin champions, you have to go back to the early 00’s to find a team that won from nowhere. That is unlikely to change this year as we are looking at Ballyboden and Portlaoise as the two heavy favourites. Outside bet would be Garrycastle - another experienced provincial player.

topofthesoil

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #488 on: November 07, 2019, 11:04:45 AM »
Corofin and Dr Crokes miles ahead of ulster at present. Probably dublin champions too.
Corofin won't be going forever. Whoever wins Ulster this year could start a tradition. Gaoth Dobhair will return as well at some stage.
How could a tradition be started? The only team (out of the remaining) that has been to an ulster final in the last five years (and lost) is Kilcoo.. So I am struggling to see how a tradition could be started?
It happens all the time in every sport.
They all have to start somewhere,
Cross won their first all Ireland in 97
Corofin in 98. They didn't know at the time that they would win multiple all Irelands.
Maybe Kilcoo aren't good enough. Let's see

Kilcoo will give it a good rattle this year

Estimator

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #489 on: November 07, 2019, 11:49:45 AM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.

I agree with that to a certain extent but ulster is littered with champions that have little or no experience of competing at that level:
Gaoth Dobhair 2018
Slaughtneil 2014
Loup 2003
Ballinderry 2001
Dungiven 1997
Crossmaglen 1996
Mullaghbawn 1995
Bellaghy 1994
Errigal Ciaran 1993
So in the past 25 years a third of the champions have "came from nowhere"

Then you have the clubs that have gained plenty of experience at ulster club level but haven't had the breakthrough
Cargin
Scotstown
St Eunan's
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Roslea
Enniskillen Gaels
Derrygonnelly
Castleblayney (post '91 team)


I think you need to view it in context. A lot of those champions won in periods where there weren't any dominant teams in Ulster so things were on a fairly even playing field. Experience is a massive advantage at provincial level.

In Leinster, if you exclude Dublin champions, you have to go back to the early 00’s to find a team that won from nowhere. That is unlikely to change this year as we are looking at Ballyboden and Portlaoise as the two heavy favourites. Outside bet would be Garrycastle - another experienced provincial player.

By taking out the Dublin teams, you are not showing the full story…

St Vincent’s won Leinster in 2007, after winning their first Dublin title in over 20yrs.

Mullinalaghta’s victory last year was a complete shock.  They’d won back to back county titles, but they weren’t considered favourites or close to it for the Leinster title.

Ballyboden have only won 4 county titles, their victory in Leinster (2015), was after their 3rd county title, 6yrs after their second.

Ballymun’s victory (2012), was won after their third county title, their previous victory in the County C’ship was in 1985.

St Brigid’s victory (2003) was won after their first county title.

And of those Dublin Clubs listed above, only St Vincent’s could really be regarded as a powerhouse, having won 28 titles. The other 3 Dublin clubs listed have a total of 9 titles between them.

With the likes of Kilmacud Crokes, Moorefield and Portlaoise, it could be argued that they’d a period of relative success within their respective counties, before winning a Leinster title.
Ulster League Champions 2009

shark

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #490 on: November 07, 2019, 12:09:57 PM »
The key to victory more often than not in provincial championship is experience. Just take a look at all the teams mentioned in the last few pages and they all have vast experience in their respective provincial championship series - Crokes, Corofin, Cross, Derrygonnelly, Kilcoo, Ballyboden. To a lesser extent Naomh Conaill and Clontibret but these 2 have consistently reached finals within their own county. Yes of course, a team can come from nowhere to win it but not often. The likes of Cargin, Magherafelt, Trillick etc need to get there for a few seasons on the trot but they can’t even get out of their own county again to do that. Fair play to the teams that win their own county consistently - they deserve a provincial title if they get it but they are not easy won.

I agree with that to a certain extent but ulster is littered with champions that have little or no experience of competing at that level:
Gaoth Dobhair 2018
Slaughtneil 2014
Loup 2003
Ballinderry 2001
Dungiven 1997
Crossmaglen 1996
Mullaghbawn 1995
Bellaghy 1994
Errigal Ciaran 1993
So in the past 25 years a third of the champions have "came from nowhere"

Then you have the clubs that have gained plenty of experience at ulster club level but haven't had the breakthrough
Cargin
Scotstown
St Eunan's
Kilcoo
Mayobridge
Roslea
Enniskillen Gaels
Derrygonnelly
Castleblayney (post '91 team)


I think you need to view it in context. A lot of those champions won in periods where there weren't any dominant teams in Ulster so things were on a fairly even playing field. Experience is a massive advantage at provincial level.

In Leinster, if you exclude Dublin champions, you have to go back to the early 00’s to find a team that won from nowhere. That is unlikely to change this year as we are looking at Ballyboden and Portlaoise as the two heavy favourites. Outside bet would be Garrycastle - another experienced provincial player.

By taking out the Dublin teams, you are not showing the full story…

St Vincent’s won Leinster in 2007, after winning their first Dublin title in over 20yrs.

Mullinalaghta’s victory last year was a complete shock.  They’d won back to back county titles, but they weren’t considered favourites or close to it for the Leinster title.

Ballyboden have only won 4 county titles, their victory in Leinster (2015), was after their 3rd county title, 6yrs after their second.

Ballymun’s victory (2012), was won after their third county title, their previous victory in the County C’ship was in 1985.

St Brigid’s victory (2003) was won after their first county title.

And of those Dublin Clubs listed above, only St Vincent’s could really be regarded as a powerhouse, having won 28 titles. The other 3 Dublin clubs listed have a total of 9 titles between them.

With the likes of Kilmacud Crokes, Moorefield and Portlaoise, it could be argued that they’d a period of relative success within their respective counties, before winning a Leinster title.

I took out the Dublin teams as I believe what the likes of Ballymun and Brigid's have done can not be replicated in other Leinster counties. The Dublin championship has a huge depth in quality. Whoever wins it is automatically the Leinster favourite.

Mullinalaghta beating Crokes in the final last year was a shock. But the fact that they got to the final last year was not. In fact, if I search my post history I will find a prediction I made that they would do just that - prior to them even winning Longford. They were in their 3rd Leinster campaign in a row. They had learned from the previous two - especially 2017 where they blew a big lead against St.Loman's and lost by 1 point.

My point was, if you are a club from a Leinster county outside of Dublin, you'd want to be winning your county championship on at least a few occasions before Leinster is realistic.

topofthesoil

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #491 on: November 07, 2019, 12:24:57 PM »
Experience is overrated.

That is just incorrect completely fella. This argument has been had on this already and nobody wants to see me prove that wrong again.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #492 on: November 07, 2019, 10:14:54 PM »
Experience is overrated.

That is just incorrect completely fella. This argument has been had on this already and nobody wants to see me prove that wrong again.

You’re right about nothing! Tyrone are the worst club teams in Ireland, even the Clare champions got to Croke Park!
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

yellowcard

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #493 on: November 07, 2019, 10:30:42 PM »
Corofin and Dr Crokes miles ahead of ulster at present. Probably dublin champions too.
Corofin won't be going forever. Whoever wins Ulster this year could start a tradition. Gaoth Dobhair will return as well at some stage.
How could a tradition be started? The only team (out of the remaining) that has been to an ulster final in the last five years (and lost) is Kilcoo.. So I am struggling to see how a tradition could be started?
It happens all the time in every sport.
They all have to start somewhere,
Cross won their first all Ireland in 97
Corofin in 98. They didn't know at the time that they would win multiple all Irelands.
Maybe Kilcoo aren't good enough. Let's see

Kilcoo will give it a good rattle this year

Last chance saloon for Kilcoo, they will certainly never get an easier draw.

topofthesoil

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Re: Ulster Club SFC 2019
« Reply #494 on: November 13, 2019, 01:56:20 PM »
Predictions for the weekend, any man brave enough to call a few