Author Topic: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019  (Read 6691 times)

general_lee

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2019, 12:11:24 PM »
As far as I am aware all counties have the right to decide how many teams they want in their respective championships and how these championships operate. It makes for serious inequalities across the board. Some counties have absolutely no correlation between their leagues and championships either.
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.
Armagh is the same, although previously under the old set up we have had Division 1 teams complete at intermediate and a division 2 team compete at junior. Now we have three leagues that correspond with the three respective  championship grades. Never in a million years could I see a team be considered good enough to play Crossmaglen in the league but only fit to play junior championship  :o

DownFanatic

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2019, 12:29:39 PM »
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.

Do Down clubs agree to play league matches without county players?

Yes.
We have a 'Starred System' whereby there are certain games throughout the season that are starred in which county players can't play in.

mrdeeds

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2019, 12:38:59 PM »
Clubs in Cavan play a lot of league games without county players so would be unfair to grade championship based on that. Killinkere are in the position where they have no county players so played teams missing players in the league. Crosserlough for example have 7 county players. Lavey are a strong senior team but in division 2 because missing county lads for league.

Itchy

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2019, 12:49:58 PM »
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?

League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.

How can a team in Div. 1 play in a Junior championship??

Surely that's totall unfair? - would Cavan clubs not to pissed off at that?

Dont think people see it like that, league and championship is separate in most counties isn't it?

marty34

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2019, 12:52:07 PM »
Itchy, did Killinkere get promoted to Div1 and if so how do they play in the Junior championship?

League and championship seperate in Cavan. They got promoted in league a couple months ago. Last year promoted from division 3 to 2 and lost junior final. This year 2 to 1 and now up to intermediate.

How can a team in Div. 1 play in a Junior championship??

Surely that's totall unfair? - would Cavan clubs not to pissed off at that?

Dont think people see it like that, league and championship is separate in most counties isn't it?

But most team say, play Div.1 league football and then play senior championship..Div.2 league and Intermediate championship etc. etc.

marty34

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2019, 12:55:44 PM »
It's not that odd at all.  And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior

Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and  in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game

Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties

But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.

marty34

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2019, 01:00:34 PM »
It's not that odd at all.  And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior

Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and  in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game

Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties
This is club football. It becomes odd when counties with differing “interpretations” of what constitutes a junior club meet each other in club competition. Kerry are the prime example. They have Division 1 clubs play junior and intermediate all the time

True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.

I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!!  A big town like that merging a minor level.  Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.

On that, in the years ahead, there will be issues regarding depopulation and fielding teams especially in rural areas.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 01:08:05 PM by marty34 »

Targetman

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2019, 01:29:17 PM »
Having asked the initial question regarding Killerkere I still don’t think its a level playing field when it comes to the Intermediate and Junior, Bright will l play in Div 4 next year and Killenkere in Div 1

five points

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2019, 01:41:39 PM »
]True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.

I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!!  A big town like that merging a minor level.  Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.

No divisional sides or amalgamations are allowed into provincial clubs championships.

St Pauls' is a tournament though, not an official competition. They can set their own rules if they wish.

tintin25

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2019, 01:47:20 PM »
Having asked the initial question regarding Killerkere I still don’t think its a level playing field when it comes to the Intermediate and Junior, Bright will l play in Div 4 next year and Killenkere in Div 1

It probably does seem like that, but they were in Division 3 last year and hadn't won the Junior Championship.  Why should promotion automatically mean that you have to go a grade higher in the championship?  Would there have been this argument had Killenkere finished bottom of Division 2?  Think the problem with Down is that they have too many divisions.  Lisburn played in Division 2 this year and won the Antrim Junior championship by a couple of points, they wouldn't have got past the first round in Intermediate.  Also, a 5 points victory is hardly justification that it's unbalanced.

Fionntamhnach

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2019, 04:00:06 PM »
This issue gets brought up every year. It's a mostly Ulster thing about linking championship status with final league positions - IIRC the only non-Ulster County I'm aware of that does the same is Dublin.

Fermanagh no longer ties its club championship gradings to league finishes either, though the small amount of clubs in the county means that with just two league divisions, Intermediate clubs still played in Division 1 and Senior clubs played in Division 2 long before the new format was introduced. This year, Derrygonnelly won Senior having finished third in D1 (though went on to win the league final vs. Ederney), Intermediate winners Kinawley finished 7th out of 10 in D1 and avoided relegation, while Junior winners Maguiresbridge finished 7th out of 10 in D2. Altogether D1 had 6 senior and 4 intermediate teams, while D2 had 2 senior, 4 intermediate & 4 junior sides.
Fighting against ignorance on the internet since 1999. It's just taking longer than I hoped.

marty34

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2019, 04:26:35 PM »
]True, there should be no divisional sides or amalgamations moving on into the provincial set up - not fair on other teams.

I remember reading somewhere, last year or year before where Cavan Gaels were joining with a club beside them for minor championship!!!  A big town like that merging a minor level.  Not sure who went on to the St. Paul's minor tournament in Belfast though.

No divisional sides or amalgamations are allowed into provincial clubs championships.

St Pauls' is a tournament though, not an official competition. They can set their own rules if they wish.

Thanks for that FPs.

twohands!!!

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2019, 06:38:39 PM »
As far as I am aware all counties have the right to decide how many teams they want in their respective championships and how these championships operate. It makes for serious inequalities across the board. Some counties have absolutely no correlation between their leagues and championships either.
My own county Down have a very honest system whereby league standings determine your gradings. It means clubs that are of proper intermediate and junior standard are playing in their proper championship.

What I can't understand is why more footballing counties don't adopt Kerry's system.
I think their divisional structure and club competitions is a huge part of why Kerry are so strong at intercounty.
Everything I've ever heard about the Kerry club structures, lead me to believe that there's a serious volume of competitive games at all levels year-in year-out.
They cast their net wide and in terms of being selected for intercounty it doesn't seem to matter if you come from one of the big clubs or one of the minnows.
I can understand why hurling/dual counties might have difficulties with it from a fixtures point of view, but a whole raft of footballing counties should have copied them years ago.

rodney trotter

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2019, 07:24:05 PM »
It's not that odd at all.  And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior

Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and  in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game

Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties

But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.

Of course... They complain that a tierd system is disregarding counties.  A hammering in a Provincial and qualifier game isn't any benefit.
Leitrim and Wicklow proposed the idea. Some of the others objected. Thery could have a chance of playing the final at Croke Park. That wasn't going to happen through the qualifiers

As regards the club scene. Trillick in Tyrone I read were beaten in a Intermeduate final a few years ago but wee promoted in Division 2 and played Senior football the following year. That's just devaluing the Intermediate Championship

marty34

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Re: Ulster Club JFC/IFC 2019
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2019, 07:34:14 PM »
It's not that odd at all.  And they would get relegated to Junior by being Relegated from Intermediate Championship.
Killenkere reached Intermediate final in 2016 but struggled in 2017 Championship and relegated to Junior

Look at the Inter County scene. There is 4 divisions In league, and  in championip a Division 4 team could play a Division 1 team in a Provincial championship game

Yet people cry about disregarding the weaker counties

But that's why now Rodney, there's a clamour for a tiered system...or at least 2 tiers.

Of course... They complain that a tierd system is disregarding counties.  A hammering in a Provincial and qualifier game isn't any benefit.
Leitrim and Wicklow proposed the idea. Some of the others objected. Thery could have a chance of playing the final at Croke Park. That wasn't going to happen through the qualifiers

As regards the club scene. Trillick in Tyrone I read were beaten in a Intermeduate final a few years ago but wee promoted in Division 2 and played Senior football the following year. That's just devaluing the Intermediate Championship

I just think that leagues and championships be tied and that you play the same teams in both.

Was checking Cavan league earlier - KK won Div. 2 league but they've won Junior championship.

Is that correct Rodney?