Author Topic: Climate change  (Read 3739 times)

omaghjoe

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2019, 12:46:06 AM »
I can see why people would be opposed to fission considering the risk of meltdown and the problem with radioactive waste. However all this needs to be squared with the risk level which is reducing all the time.. I think I read that fission is safer than solar in terms of deaths but of course it's hard to quantify. But the debate around fission needs to be much more objective and informed because at the minute its not

But folks are drawing absolute safety cases from technology designed in the 60s.

Compare a car from the 1960s to now and you'll quickly come to the conclusion the 60s car is a death trap! Its no different in reactor design - all modern designs are fail-safe - fukushima could not happen a modern reactor:

1. All modern reactors require a feedback loop of (a small amount of) power to keep the reaction ongoing (electromagnetics for the control rods). Withdraw that loop and the reaction safely shuts down as gravity pulls the control rods down.
2. All modern reactors can be cooled by passive means alone - so failure of the coolant pumps does not lead to an overheat scenario.

Spot on.... tho in discussions it will inevitability turn to the probs of radioactive waste. I would always point to France as an example for nuclear but poor old Chernobyl always gets a run out.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2019, 06:27:45 AM »
For the “she’s being paid / manipulated by her parents” crowd:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=773676963000126&id=732846497083173

As the rumours, lies and constant leaving out of well established facts continue, please share this newly updated clarification about me and my school strike.
Please help me communicate this to the grown ups who lie about me and family so that I can focus on school instead:

Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.
 
In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.
 
When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.
 
Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for  myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is  fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.
 
My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.
 
And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.
 
Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.
 
Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.
 
There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.
 
 
And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began. 
 
And thank you everyone for your kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta

Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor does anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised for what has happened and I have accepted their apology.

easytiger95

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2019, 09:36:52 AM »
Great article from an incredibly brave and articulate person. I agree with Eamonn, those who are criticising her are basically engaging in child abuse for hire. Good clip below from the Majority Report on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSFEcG0CKB0

These are very dark times (I've also been bingeing on a lot of Scott Walker music recently, which definitely hasn't helped  :o) but as we settle down to wait for our Mad Max style hellscape to fully appear, at least we can say we were told, and clearly, what we should do to prevent it. People like her are a wonder and she should be cherished.

Just on the nuclear issue, I don't know near enough about it. For me the big questions re its use is the production of the waste material - where and how can it be safely dealt with? Also, are these new reactor designs safe enough to deal with natural disasters, earthquakes, hurricanes, typhoons, tsunami etc? Given that a lot of these phenomena are exacerbated by climate change, are these risks being built into design?

Genuine questions, I'd love some answers. Nuclear has always seemed to me that it should or could be part of a solution.

whitey

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2019, 11:54:18 AM »
I wonder if they got the family discount on the ANTIFA tee shirts?


Oh.....I forgot, they just borrowed them from someone

omaghjoe

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2019, 04:04:44 PM »
Its alot of pressure for any1 let alone someone who is 16, yesterday was a difficult watch.
I know she'd prob say she wants to do it but to be thrust into the limelight like that and all the pressure and ridicule that comes with it is difficult to handle... she is 16 FGS!

As for the facts of the Climate there is no way I would be listening to a well meaning 16 year old on it.
Firstly I'd have difficulty believing that she knows more than myself about it and there is no way she understands more than a lot of other people who talk about it.

If you want to talk about Climate change talk about it, not Greta Thornberg.
And lets hear about the solutions..... the solutions are difficult with consequences of their own.
Then people just want rant on about the ridicule of a 16 year old instead of actual solutions, there must be dozens of articles online about this.
If you want to talk about child abuse talk about child trafficking not this.

omaghjoe

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2019, 04:07:31 PM »
Meanwhile in other news Ireland is doing its part by banning oil exploration in its territorial waters

KSA also pledged to do their bit by pledging not to build any peat power plants

five points

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2019, 04:24:28 PM »
those who are criticising her are basically engaging in child abuse for hire.

Why do you think there's a (clearly troubled) child fronting this propaganda campaign?


seafoid

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2019, 04:25:35 PM »
those who are criticising her are basically engaging in child abuse for hire.

Why do you think there's a (clearly troubled) child fronting this propaganda campaign?
It's not propaganda.
Climate change is a fact.
Lookit

five points

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2019, 04:29:03 PM »
Climate change is a fact.

Climates have always changed and will change.  That is a fact. The theory that current climate change is wholly or predominantly man-made and will have catastrophic results most certainly is not.

Meanwhile, I await an answer to my question.

easytiger95

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2019, 04:45:44 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2019/sep/18/listen-to-the-scientists-greta-thunberg-tells-congress-video

Greta says it better than anyone - she doesn't want anyone to listen to her per se, she wants them to listen to the scientists. But given that one of the two main parties in the world's biggest emitter is committed to climate change denial, then she feels no choice but to speak out - given that her generation are the ones who will bear the biggest cost.

Perhaps people should get over the fact that she is a 16 year old girl and acknowledge the sense she is talking - she says we should follow the considered, peer reviewed conclusions of over 99 percent of studies that climate change is caused by human activity. If you disagree with her, I assume you are disagreeing with that?

Or maybe you just don't think a 16 year old girl should speak truth to power - a position I find as repellent as climate change denial. We won't get a solution without a functioning global democratic system. Her stand renews faith in the power of free speech, protest and democracy on the ground. The tragedy is that a 16 year old girl is displaying more maturity than the majority of lawmakers in Western societies.

trailer

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2019, 04:51:47 PM »
Climate change is a fact.

Climates have always changed and will change.  That is a fact. The theory that current climate change is wholly or predominantly man-made and will have catastrophic results most certainly is not.

Meanwhile, I await an answer to my question.

Jesus Christ. Do you actually believe this?

Gabriel_Hurl

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2019, 04:52:40 PM »
She's doing alright



five points

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2019, 04:59:20 PM »
Climate change is a fact.

Climates have always changed and will change.  That is a fact. The theory that current climate change is wholly or predominantly man-made and will have catastrophic results most certainly is not.

Meanwhile, I await an answer to my question.

Jesus Christ. Do you actually believe this?

Do you believe the opposite?

five points

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2019, 04:59:47 PM »
She's doing alright




You really think she's running her own Twitter account?

five points

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Re: Climate change
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2019, 05:02:14 PM »
Or maybe you just don't think a 16 year old girl should speak truth to power - a position I find as repellent as climate change denial. We won't get a solution without a functioning global democratic system. Her stand renews faith in the power of free speech, protest and democracy on the ground. The tragedy is that a 16 year old girl is displaying more maturity than the majority of lawmakers in Western societies.

She's a troubled child with special needs. If you think that fronting a huge political campaign is a safe and appropriate activity for her, fair enough but I beg to differ.