Author Topic: Shipyard  (Read 6344 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2019, 03:00:05 PM »
From my limited understanding it sounds like it is purely symbolic. This day has been coming to H&W for a long long time and I think it's history has managed to drag it this far but can take it no further. I've been listening to the old argument that it was the EU's fault on competition laws. But H&W don't have a single order on their books at the minute and not even an order in sight. That's one of the core reasons why no one would bail them out (pardon the pun). Most of these ships are built in the Far East now in South Korea or China well outside the EU.
Another core reason being the horrific pension liabilities.

Buying out of administration makes more sense.

I was thinking that myself especially when it became clear there was a hole in the pension pot.

A new buyer won't take that liability, the Government will have to, but maybe not the full amount and some pensions might have to get trimmed by 10% or whatever.

There'll also be new terms and conditions for the staff unless the new owner offers to honour the TUPE process, but they are in the box seat if a new owner can be found.

I also don't get the "iconic" status of H&W as it was very much jobs for the boys and those boys wouldn't have been too welcoming to someone from my community back in the day.

Agreed.  There was nothing 'iconic' about the yard at all.  A sectarian shithole.  The cranes are a famous landmark and will no doubt survive.

Feel sorry for those who are losing their jobs, it can't be a good time.  Apart from that I'd say good riddance to another symbol of unionist dominance.

And when Shorts closes its doors that will be another nail in the symbol of unionist dominance!

Lets close all the unionist companies up the Shankill and Newtownards road while your at it
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

playwiththewind1st

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2019, 03:24:17 PM »
We shall not foresake the dole of Ulster for the PRSI of an Irish Republic.

johnnycool

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2019, 04:21:28 PM »
From my limited understanding it sounds like it is purely symbolic. This day has been coming to H&W for a long long time and I think it's history has managed to drag it this far but can take it no further. I've been listening to the old argument that it was the EU's fault on competition laws. But H&W don't have a single order on their books at the minute and not even an order in sight. That's one of the core reasons why no one would bail them out (pardon the pun). Most of these ships are built in the Far East now in South Korea or China well outside the EU.
Another core reason being the horrific pension liabilities.

Buying out of administration makes more sense.

I was thinking that myself especially when it became clear there was a hole in the pension pot.

A new buyer won't take that liability, the Government will have to, but maybe not the full amount and some pensions might have to get trimmed by 10% or whatever.

There'll also be new terms and conditions for the staff unless the new owner offers to honour the TUPE process, but they are in the box seat if a new owner can be found.

I also don't get the "iconic" status of H&W as it was very much jobs for the boys and those boys wouldn't have been too welcoming to someone from my community back in the day.

Agreed.  There was nothing 'iconic' about the yard at all.  A sectarian shithole.  The cranes are a famous landmark and will no doubt survive.

Feel sorry for those who are losing their jobs, it can't be a good time.  Apart from that I'd say good riddance to another symbol of unionist dominance.

And when Shorts closes its doors that will be another nail in the symbol of unionist dominance!

Lets close all the unionist companies up the Shankill and Newtownards road while your at it

Shorts/Bombardier are just another employer, if they go against the wall it's because what they're doing isn't a viable business.
They'd have went to the wall if it wasn't for Government subsidies years ago.

I've worked for a company who went to the wall who in their day employed over 1K people, it's not nice, but you dust yourself down and get on with it.

These iconic industries need to move with the times or die. I don't buy this iconic bullshit.


omaghjoe

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2019, 04:32:53 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.

As for the nationalisation of the business I find that laughable. If the same fate was going to befall Powerscreen they would be told to catch themselves on.

armaghniac

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2019, 04:51:34 PM »
I think some here have a poor understanding of the English language, or perhaps think it should be interpreted according to your political view, Brexit style.

The shipyard is iconic for Belfast, any view with the cranes in the background says "Belfast". It was a formidable centre of world class engineering for a century. It is also entirely representative of the sick underbelly of Norn Iron society. Many tried hard to keep it that way, but many others worked there for a job.
Its day is done, but people should not be welcoming the end of such institutions, but hoping for their reform to be normal places while still having world stature.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2019, 04:56:15 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.


The cranes are not unique but other European cities with the same cranes have used in them in developing their redundant shipbuilding facilities with the cranes included as reminders of their industrial heritage.



omaghjoe

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2019, 05:01:07 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.


The cranes are not unique but other European cities with the same cranes have used in them in developing their redundant shipbuilding facilities with the cranes included as reminders of their industrial heritage.


Aye we got the picture first time around...

Just cos Gothenburg decided to keep an eyesore doesnt mean Belfast should do the same. You can acknowledge the past without having it dominating the present

Maiden1

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2019, 05:09:37 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.


The cranes are not unique but other European cities with the same cranes have used in them in developing their redundant shipbuilding facilities with the cranes included as reminders of their industrial heritage.


Aye we got the picture first time around...

Just cos Gothenburg decided to keep an eyesore doesnt mean Belfast should do the same. You can acknowledge the past without having it dominating the present
There are cruise ships come in to Belfast nearly every day of the week.  Visit the hole in the ground, go up the cranes, titanic museum, bus tour of the site brings a lot of money into Belfast every year.
If you want something, you have to work for it. Now quiet they're about to announce the lottery no's

omaghjoe

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2019, 07:20:45 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.


The cranes are not unique but other European cities with the same cranes have used in them in developing their redundant shipbuilding facilities with the cranes included as reminders of their industrial heritage.


Aye we got the picture first time around...

Just cos Gothenburg decided to keep an eyesore doesnt mean Belfast should do the same. You can acknowledge the past without having it dominating the present
There are cruise ships come in to Belfast nearly every day of the week.  Visit the hole in the ground, go up the cranes, titanic museum, bus tour of the site brings a lot of money into Belfast every year.

Well thats a fair point actually... if they can pay for themselves they are probably worth the monstrosity... would they not get the ships anyway tho?... prob no way of gauging it.

Maiden1

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2019, 07:38:39 PM »
What's so iconic about the cranes? I think they are a blight on the Belfast skyline
They are big yellow industrial pieces of equipment, look like SFA and they are only there 50 years.
Would there be the same clamour to save Divis Tower? A ton of people wanted to demolish Bank Buildings after the fire which are historic beautiful and will be functional again, the gantry cranes cant claim any of that.


The cranes are not unique but other European cities with the same cranes have used in them in developing their redundant shipbuilding facilities with the cranes included as reminders of their industrial heritage.


Aye we got the picture first time around...

Just cos Gothenburg decided to keep an eyesore doesnt mean Belfast should do the same. You can acknowledge the past without having it dominating the present
There are cruise ships come in to Belfast nearly every day of the week.  Visit the hole in the ground, go up the cranes, titanic museum, bus tour of the site brings a lot of money into Belfast every year.

Well thats a fair point actually... if they can pay for themselves they are probably worth the monstrosity... would they not get the ships anyway tho?... prob no way of gauging it.
Visit the hedge from game of thrones.  Come and see samson and goliath, wonder at the funny shaped rocks at giants causeway. There isn't that many unique things for people to want to make Belfast a place to stop.
If you want something, you have to work for it. Now quiet they're about to announce the lottery no's

Milltown Row2

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2019, 07:57:20 PM »
Jesus thereís some miserable cnuts about.

No one is disputing the fact thatís itís done, it finished early 2000, itís been on life support ever since.

Anyone that thinks the cranes are an eye sore is a tool, just my opinion.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Franko

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2019, 08:21:42 PM »
I think some here have a poor understanding of the English language, or perhaps think it should be interpreted according to your political view, Brexit style.

The shipyard is iconic for Belfast, any view with the cranes in the background says "Belfast". It was a formidable centre of world class engineering for a century. It is also entirely representative of the sick underbelly of Norn Iron society. Many tried hard to keep it that way, but many others worked there for a job.
Its day is done, but people should not be welcoming the end of such institutions, but hoping for their reform to be normal places while still having world stature.

The cranes are probably iconic (as you've said in your opening sentence).

There was fcuk all iconic about the business.

Franko

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2019, 08:24:38 PM »
From my limited understanding it sounds like it is purely symbolic. This day has been coming to H&W for a long long time and I think it's history has managed to drag it this far but can take it no further. I've been listening to the old argument that it was the EU's fault on competition laws. But H&W don't have a single order on their books at the minute and not even an order in sight. That's one of the core reasons why no one would bail them out (pardon the pun). Most of these ships are built in the Far East now in South Korea or China well outside the EU.
Another core reason being the horrific pension liabilities.

Buying out of administration makes more sense.

I was thinking that myself especially when it became clear there was a hole in the pension pot.

A new buyer won't take that liability, the Government will have to, but maybe not the full amount and some pensions might have to get trimmed by 10% or whatever.

There'll also be new terms and conditions for the staff unless the new owner offers to honour the TUPE process, but they are in the box seat if a new owner can be found.

I also don't get the "iconic" status of H&W as it was very much jobs for the boys and those boys wouldn't have been too welcoming to someone from my community back in the day.

Agreed.  There was nothing 'iconic' about the yard at all.  A sectarian shithole.  The cranes are a famous landmark and will no doubt survive.

Feel sorry for those who are losing their jobs, it can't be a good time.  Apart from that I'd say good riddance to another symbol of unionist dominance.

And when Shorts closes its doors that will be another nail in the symbol of unionist dominance!

Lets close all the unionist companies up the Shankill and Newtownards road while your at it

 ;D

BarryBreensBandage

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2019, 08:49:47 PM »
Jesus thereís some miserable cnuts about.

No one is disputing the fact thatís itís done, it finished early 2000, itís been on life support ever since.

Anyone that thinks the cranes are an eye sore is a tool, just my opinion.

Was it not used for the assembly of wind turbines in the recent past?
That's what I was told by one of the engineers onsite a while ago and that was why it had trundled on for the last few years.
"Some people say I am indecisive..... maybe I am, maybe I'm not".

omaghjoe

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Re: Shipyard
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2019, 08:51:36 PM »
Jesus thereís some miserable cnuts about.

No one is disputing the fact thatís itís done, it finished early 2000, itís been on life support ever since.

Anyone that thinks the cranes are an eye sore is a tool, just my opinion.

Looks like you took something out of shipyard at least.... even tho it is intolerance of others opinions at least its something