Author Topic: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!  (Read 1562 times)

Esmarelda

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2019, 02:21:58 PM »
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. Heís immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. Thereís no options to his left, why would there be? He canít dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, itís overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesnít miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and thereís danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

 This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rockís miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. Itís the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you donít understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What youíre advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

ó-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

Iíd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.

johnnycool

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2019, 02:41:22 PM »
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. Heís immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. Thereís no options to his left, why would there be? He canít dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, itís overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesnít miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and thereís danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

 This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rockís miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. Itís the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you donít understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What youíre advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

ó-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

Iíd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.

It depends on how you define the "curse on the game" though.

Is the curse the fact that teams kill time by playing the ball back and forth in their own half or the fact that getting back to defend is now so ingrained in some teams that they don't push out to put pressure on teams with the ball until they cross midfield, even teams that are behind on the scoreboard.

Which is it?

Esmarelda

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2019, 02:47:53 PM »
I don't know johnnycool, I didn't say it.

maccer

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2019, 02:54:44 PM »
How about no pass back to you the goalkeeper inside the large square. Can't see any issue with goalkeepers coming out the field to become involved in play. It creates overlaps and some excitement in that the goals is open and you get the sense that one mistake could result in a goal as happened Graham Brody in the Div 3 final v Westmeath

five points

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2019, 03:18:26 PM »
How about no pass back to you the goalkeeper inside the large square. Can't see any issue with goalkeepers coming out the field to become involved in play. It creates overlaps and some excitement in that the goals is open and you get the sense that one mistake could result in a goal as happened Graham Brody in the Div 3 final v Westmeath

The large square meaning including the small square? Very hard on a team defending a goalmouth under pressure. The goalie is out of the game until an opposing forward plays the ball.

thewobbler

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2019, 03:40:38 PM »
Esmeralda, of course a keeper would have purpose to his team - but only when the opposition have the ball. But should his own team have the ball, it would result in a tap over free (or perhaps a penalty) should a team mate knowingly or unknowingly bring him into play. Therefore he would be better off standing behind the end line; for at least if he unwittingly receives a pass, it will result in a 45, and not a tap over free.

Surely you can accept the practical reality of what Iím saying here?

óó

Surely also you can agree that the scenario I previously described is a narrow version of a situation that unfolds many times in every match, whereby a fullback or corner back takes a clean fetch, and needs an immediate outlet in order to mitigate the chance of over carrying.

From the earliest days of Gaelic football, the keeper has been that outlet; an outlet that means the corner backís strong defensive play creates a reward for his team.

This is not and has never been a problem in Gaelic football.

But a blanket rule change makes it a panic button situation.

óó

Soccer fullbacks when theyíre in trouble can still pass to their goalkeeper. That he cannot pick the ball up is an aside; he is still an active participant on the field.

This mooted rule change would not have that effect: it reduces the team in possession to a 14 man team.




Esmarelda

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2019, 04:01:30 PM »
Esmeralda, of course a keeper would have purpose to his team - but only when the opposition have the ball. But should his own team have the ball, it would result in a tap over free (or perhaps a penalty) should a team mate knowingly or unknowingly bring him into play. Therefore he would be better off standing behind the end line; for at least if he unwittingly receives a pass, it will result in a 45, and not a tap over free.

Surely you can accept the practical reality of what Iím saying here?

óó

Surely also you can agree that the scenario I previously described is a narrow version of a situation that unfolds many times in every match, whereby a fullback or corner back takes a clean fetch, and needs an immediate outlet in order to mitigate the chance of over carrying.

From the earliest days of Gaelic football, the keeper has been that outlet; an outlet that means the corner backís strong defensive play creates a reward for his team.

This is not and has never been a problem in Gaelic football.

But a blanket rule change makes it a panic button situation.

óó

Soccer fullbacks when theyíre in trouble can still pass to their goalkeeper. That he cannot pick the ball up is an aside; he is still an active participant on the field.

This mooted rule change would not have that effect: it reduces the team in possession to a 14 man team.
Like I said, kickouts and playing the ball when received from a shot dropped short are two examples of his purpose to the team. Obviously he would be of no use if his own team had the ball if the rule was brought in to cut off all backpasses. But that's not what you said.

On your second point, again of course I understood your point. I merely pointed out that in the situation you described, defending a last minute free, that you would have many other players back in and around the box, even as the rule stands now. I additionally pointed out that teams would adjust to the rule moreso and that it would hardly be that big of a step to pass it off to one of the other players. What's happened up to this point is irrelevant in the context of what the rule would bring and what changes it would require from defending teams.

I can't compare the soccer backpass rule to this one as this hasn't been proposed yet never mind discussed but again, I can obviously see the difference. As some others alluded to, the rule may be looked at in relation to the keeper being in a certain area of the field, perhaps ahead of the ball. Perhaps only being involved once before the opposition touch it, who knows. I think it's not worth discarding.

hardstation

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2019, 04:23:14 PM »
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.


thewobbler

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2019, 06:22:04 PM »
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I donít think it would happen either HS. But youíre talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given thatís there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, itís an immediate score for opposition.

Esmarelda

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2019, 06:59:49 PM »
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I donít think it would happen either HS. But youíre talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given thatís there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, itís an immediate score for opposition.
Other than when he catches the ball you mean?

thewobbler

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2019, 07:14:43 PM »
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I donít think it would happen either HS. But youíre talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given thatís there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, itís an immediate score for opposition.
Other than when he catches the ball you mean?

Okay yes. I suppose so. But as he wonít have the option of a quick return pass, and every one of his opponents knows that, and he will need his fellow defenders to show quickly, I assume itíll usually be a quick release.

westbound

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Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2019, 11:09:07 PM »
If the suggestion was amended to Ban passes to the goalkeeper from outside the 14yard line. Any player in trouble inside the 14 can still use the keeper as an outlet.
But it stops players further out the field using the keeper as an easy option.
It also prevents short kick outs going to a defender and  then being returned to the keeper immediately!