Author Topic: split the dubs in 4  (Read 1706 times)

Hound

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2019, 09:59:37 PM »
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know itís only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies donít continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, itís Kerryís youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

kerryforsam19

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
Dublin get most games at home
And even if they are beaten, they get another shot at it. Dublin could lose twice and still win the AI

irish345

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2019, 10:06:31 PM »
do you think having an ulster championship played instead of mckenna with 2 groups of 4 and two teams advancing to semi finals and final would be a good idea make open draw so any 4 teams can be in any group  there would have to be a preliminary game beetween the worse two teams in ulster to get into the group stage and every year you could have the worse team has to play the preliminary next season or the two bottom teams have to play each other with the loser having to play preliminary next season there be less dead rubbers with that because coming 3rd in group means you avoid having to play again and potential not be in the group stage next season 

kerryforsam19

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2019, 10:07:19 PM »
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know itís only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies donít continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, itís Kerryís youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Dublin were the GAA's special project though. And their huge investment paid off but only short term. Massive crowds followed the increased success off the back of the investment by taxpayers and GAA members. If you give huge resources to one county with the biggest population, then, of course, they're going to push ahead. Now though, the crowds are dwindling, they still have to finance their structures but they are not getting a return.
It's their own fault really. As I said, short term thinking. Now they're desperately trying things like the super 8's and forming an elite championship to make up the shortfall. Basically, they had a great product on their hands, a highly competitive championship where many teams were winning provincial and All Ireland's. They completely destroyed this. Unfortunately it will be hard to see a recovery.

BennyCake

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2019, 10:09:05 PM »
Dublin get most games at home
And even if they are beaten, they get another shot at it. Dublin could lose twice and still win the AI

Or three times, if they play Laois.

BennyCake

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2019, 10:22:04 PM »
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know itís only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies donít continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, itís Kerryís youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Dublin were the GAA's special project though. And their huge investment paid off but only short term. Massive crowds followed the increased success off the back of the investment by taxpayers and GAA members. If you give huge resources to one county with the biggest population, then, of course, they're going to push ahead. Now though, the crowds are dwindling, they still have to finance their structures but they are not getting a return.
It's their own fault really. As I said, short term thinking. Now they're desperately trying things like the super 8's and forming an elite championship to make up the shortfall. Basically, they had a great product on their hands, a highly competitive championship where many teams were winning provincial and All Ireland's. They completely destroyed this. Unfortunately it will be hard to see a recovery.

Youíre absolutely right. The 90ís were probably the best decade for football. New winners of Sam, and 8 winners in 10 years. Lots of teams on an even keel. Ulster had 6 title winners including Cavan after 30 years, Clare won in Munster, Leitrim in Connacht; Offaly, Kildare, made breakthroughs in Leinster.

You had Dublin Meath clashing many times, Kerry rising again, Galway too, Down Derry Donegal winning Sam. You had a new Croke Park, and grounds being redeveloped, more matches on TV, bigger crowds. The GAA had a great product, but they blew it.

priceyreilly

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2019, 10:47:39 PM »
Again, thread after thread after thread about how the GDO money has somehow created these magnificent players like Cluxton and McCarthy and Fenton and Mannion etc etc (amazing achievement given none of the GDOs ever coach these players) and not a single thread on how Kerry manage to 5 minor titles in a row - what are they doing right?  What are you doing wrong?

I know itís only a dopey minority who drive all these dopey threads, but pricey, mup, etc. your salty tears are lovely. Keep crying. Please.

Until the government come up with a situation where so many culchies donít continue to come to live in Dublin and give their free time to coach at the great clubs in Dublin, pay their club subs to Dublin clubs and give us their children to play in blue, we are going to continue to be there or thereabouts.

But in the meantime, itís Kerryís youth system that other counties should at least attempt to have a look at.

Explain how Dublin have won 54 provincial and All Ireland titles in all age groups and codes since the millions started to flow into the Dublin county board accounts since 2005? They won 14 in the 15 years before that.

The GDO's do their work in attracting numbers from local schools to clubs, improving standards in clubs and the like. This has seen an increase in club titles from 4 in the 15 years prior to the doping to 17 since then. But what you don't mention is that the GDO's also assist in identifying talent. This is the key that the likes of you want hidden.

The elite talent spotted in clubs are put into development squads, here's where they are put on a development program. This program is not designed for them to peak at 17 or 18, it's to produce senior talent. These players have the best facilities available to them, top quality strength and conditioning coaches, the latest in sports science, it's basically a professional set up. Similar to Leinster rugby.

The problem for you is that there are people from around the country in Dublin, they are involved in GAA and they know what's going on. You are absolutely sickened when you hear about your doping because you know it's true. As they say, the truth hurts. Without the doping you'd still be an also-ran in football and a minnow in hurling.

omaghjoe

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2019, 11:00:18 PM »
In all seriousness the Dubs need split and the entire competition format should be revamped to level the playing field

Dubs could still play in a Railway Cup competition which could be revamped with Dubs, East and West Ulster, Munster, Rest of Leinster & Connacht


magpie seanie

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2019, 11:10:34 PM »
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if theyíre nowhere near at the moment) but Iím sure thereíd be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.

moysider

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2019, 11:34:45 PM »
Dublin cannot be split. The onus on the GAA is to allow other teams to get to compete at that level consistently. That will take initiative but there is no way the Dublin genie can be put back in the bottle. They have advanced the game to a new level and to dumb them down in some way would be more damaging than the perceived damage they are supposed to be doing now.

There are dominant teams in other sports but I don't think anybody is suggesting the All-Black brand should be scrapped and play 3 NZ teams instead to give other countries a chance! Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), and North and South Island team. It doesn't wash and the Dublin brand is as important in Gaelic football.

The obvious answer - and it will eventually happen - is a degree of professionalism that should allow 6-8 teams compete with Dublin. A 2 tier system is imminent and professionalism will follow as sure as night follows day. Gombeen boards will have to get in the marketing men and push on.
 
There is money to be invested and made here and it has to happen and the whole game will benefit from knock-on effect as has been seen in Soccer and Rugby even though at the time player's wages in soccer and any professionalism in rugby were supposed to ruin things. They skyrocketed in popularity. 10-12 years ago Connacht Rugby was almost jettisoned because of concerns about its viability.

As things stand I believe there would be enough fan base and sponsorship in counties like Kerry, Donegal, Tyron, Mayo, Kildare and Meath to drive this. Maybe others but dual counties like Cork and Galway seem to have an awful 'fickle' supporter tradition.

Imo, there is no going back as regards the development of a sport if it wants to survive in any meaningful way.

The excellence of this Dublin team should be matched in the future but that can't happen if there is no more Dublin.

If we are to save the old game we need to allow other teams to get better and not make Dublin poorer.  Most sport does not work like that apart from horse racing where the better horses carry more weight.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 12:04:20 AM by moysider »

sekibanki

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2019, 11:43:24 PM »
Say a Maori team ( non -starter because it would be racist), .
You mean like the Maori All Blacks? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_All_Blacks

omaghjoe

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2019, 11:45:05 PM »
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

moysider

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2019, 11:46:10 PM »
Would all Dublin fans be again a Dublin North and Dublin South team? I'd say 1 or both teams would go close to winning an AI (and give other teams a bit more of a chance).
Well county identity is obviously a huge part of GAA, so most people are instantly against splitting their own county, or combining their county with someone else.

Splitting Dublin is worthy of consideration. But would it solve a whole lot other than helping Kerry win more All Irelands?

Equally worthy of consideration would be to play the league as is, but combine teams for the All Ireland. Two six team divisions, top 2 in each division makes the semis.

Dublin
Kerry
Cork
Rest of Munster
Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
Galway/Ros
South Leinster
North Leinster
Tyrone/Derry
Donegal/Fermanagh
Cavan/Monaghan
Armagh/Down/Antrim

Every player and every fan could have aspirations of winning Sam, although cyclically, some would not contend.
The above split is just top of the head (Cork on their own, but they should be challenging even if theyíre nowhere near at the moment) but Iím sure thereíd be a better way of doing it, but as an idea it would be better to try it with hurling first where the disparity is even greater.


So instead of splitting one county, we amalgamate all but 3? To avoid doing the obvious, we discommode 28 counties who will not field in the All Ireland football chapionship? This is what the GPA and the advocates of professionalism want. I wouldn't be arsed going to see any games in a competition like this.

What chance does a young kid in Dublin have of representing their county? My cousin's daughter has gone through round after round of trials for Dublin u-13 girls.

Painting everyone who raises these questions as a crank or nutter isn't accurate or fair. I really admire what Dublin GAA has done and think the Dublin senior team are absolutely brilliant and will go down in history as one of if not the best ever. I think the coaching and tactics are ahead of everyone else (which money can't be blamed for) and they have pioneeered many aspect of gaelic football, the vast majority positive. However, I do think their success has bubbled up issues that should have been addressed a long time ago. When Peter Quinn's committee came up with the split proposals back in the 90's he was right. I understand county loyalty but I'm not convinced the negatives of the proposal outweigh the potential gains.

What chance does any kid have of getting to an elite level in any sport - anywhere?
Playing hurling for Kilkenny?
Playing for Brazil? Yet they play on.
All the kids that play basketball in USA - how many play NBA?
All the kids that do athletics in this country? I'm sure most would love to represent Ireland in Olympics but for 99.999% of them, they haven't a chance.
Same for kids that go out and try and play snooker, golf, tennis, ride horses etc.

moysider

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2019, 11:55:20 PM »
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.

omaghjoe

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Re: split the dubs in 4
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2019, 12:02:35 AM »
No one is making Dublin poorer if they are giving them a new elite competition (as in a revamped Interpro) to compete in. In fact it should make them better as the level of their opposition will be higher. And by putting the Dubs into that competition it would breathe new lift into it

It will also allow the rest of the counties to compete at a level that is moderately fair to each other.

I wouldn't cross the road to see an Interpro. The Railway Cup died for a reason. Zero stomach for it. I'm old enough to have seen likes of Paddy Cullen and Jimmy Keaveney play Railway Cup, and it was great but an Interpro in football is about as likely to get popular support as Irish TV bringing back The Riardons, Quicksilver and Mart and Market.
Need to go forward.

It died because there wasnt the will to market it.. If the Dubs were in it there would be renewed interest....2 groups of 3 with a final would have far more potential that the flogging to death of counties in the super 8s