Author Topic: 2019 USFC SF Dún na nGall vs Tír Eoghain, Breffni, Saturday 8th June @5pm  (Read 19073 times)

greatpoint

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Anybody any clue what McCann was at??

Putting 2 fingers inside another players mouth is a very specific and targeted action. It hard to imagine that it was just made up on the spot. Was he trying to get the gum shield out and engineer a bite mark on his finger?

Irrespective of what punishment the rule book permits the incident is troubling and reflects very badly on the lad

maybe he was provoked?....  there was a a lot of sledging/goading/thrash talking goin on in Donegal fullback line   esp first half
If he’s provoked that badly then hit the man a box in the jaw or else f**k up and play the game. No excuse for that cowardly act when a mans lying on the ground.

Good thing there aren’t any Tyrone fans trying to excuse or justify what he did I suppose.

Sticking his fingers in his mouth is cowardly but boxing him in the jaw is excusable?

That's a very suspect moral ground. Punching someone in the jaw is as trampish as it gets.

I never said either was excusable, perhaps you replied to the wrong person?

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw. You seem fairly blinkered though.

I did quote the wrong post. The reply before that was the one I was referring to.

I would rather have an opponent stick their gloves fingers in my mouth than having a 14 stone athlete box me in the jaw. I would rather be spat on, bit or sledged than being boxed in the jaw. The consequences of those actions are unpleasant but nowhere near as dangerous and likely to have long lasting consequences than a box in the jaw.

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did. In your first reply to me you referred to how "trampish" you considered the act of punching someone and in your very next reply you've switched to talking about the danger and long term consequences of it. What is it exactly you're trying to say?

There are plenty of acts in sports that could be considered "trampish' but not particularly dangerous, and the inherent danger of an act isn't the only parameter that determines the punishment. I'm sure you understand this already though.

Angelo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
Anybody any clue what McCann was at??

Putting 2 fingers inside another players mouth is a very specific and targeted action. It hard to imagine that it was just made up on the spot. Was he trying to get the gum shield out and engineer a bite mark on his finger?

Irrespective of what punishment the rule book permits the incident is troubling and reflects very badly on the lad

maybe he was provoked?....  there was a a lot of sledging/goading/thrash talking goin on in Donegal fullback line   esp first half
If he’s provoked that badly then hit the man a box in the jaw or else f**k up and play the game. No excuse for that cowardly act when a mans lying on the ground.

Good thing there aren’t any Tyrone fans trying to excuse or justify what he did I suppose.

Sticking his fingers in his mouth is cowardly but boxing him in the jaw is excusable?

That's a very suspect moral ground. Punching someone in the jaw is as trampish as it gets.

I never said either was excusable, perhaps you replied to the wrong person?

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw. You seem fairly blinkered though.

I did quote the wrong post. The reply before that was the one I was referring to.

I would rather have an opponent stick their gloves fingers in my mouth than having a 14 stone athlete box me in the jaw. I would rather be spat on, bit or sledged than being boxed in the jaw. The consequences of those actions are unpleasant but nowhere near as dangerous and likely to have long lasting consequences than a box in the jaw.

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did. In your first reply to me you referred to how "trampish" you considered the act of punching someone and in your very next reply you've switched to talking about the danger and long term consequences of it. What is it exactly you're trying to say?

There are plenty of acts in sports that could be considered "trampish' but not particularly dangerous, and the inherent danger of an act isn't the only parameter that determines the punishment. I'm sure you understand this already though.

Jesus Christ.

Once again, someone is completely missing the point. How many more times will people gloss over the fact that I have said multiple times on here that what McCann did was wrong and indefensible?

I'm commenting on some of the idiots on here who have expressed their outrage at it but seemingly don't seem to have the same outrage when a player is boxed in the face, if I had the choice of someone sticking the fingers in my mouth when I was on the ground or having my meals through a straw for 6 weeks with my jaw wired up then I think I'd have a pretty good idea of which act is the most dangerous and the certainly the most outrageous.

The point is fairly evident if you can read. Boxing a lad in the face is far more dangerous than gouging, diving, spitting, biting, fish hooking etc. It's far more likely to inflict damage on you and potentially lead to life changing consequences but despite that it seems to be far more excusable and acceptable in the GAA world than the aforementioned acts.

We've had a number of posters on here condemning the cowardly nature of what McCann did (I have no qualms wit that) while on the other hand excusing and championing lads boxing each other in the face as some sort of manly and courageous act.

In terms of a hierarchy of offences, punching an opponent in the face is about as malevolent and dangerous as it gets on a sporting pitch yet a large number of posters and pundits seem to excuse that action.


Owen Brannigan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
    • View Profile

I've always found it odd in a sporting context and GAA particularly that there is some sort of honour in boxing an opponent in the face but huge outrage at stuff like diving, verbals, spitting, gouging, fish hooking which generally won't have anywhere near as serious of consequences.

Think I read something a few years back about a club footballer, might have been Mayo, who was blinded in one eye for life after a punch to the face.

Lads off work for weeks and having their meals through a straw with their jaws wired up, broken noses, permanent scarring, black eyes, missing teeth, cheekbones smashed, concussions but it's accepted as part of the game yet the outrage at lesser incidents.

And that's no defence of McCann either, what he did was trampish and has no place of a football pitch but perspective is lost on some people.

Well said!

Any form of actual bodily harm and grievous bodily harm on the sports field must be condemned and dealt with by appropriate rules and penalties.

The problem is two fold.  As highlighted above, certain elements of violence causing actual body harm and even grievous bodily harm are considered to be manly and an element of GAA sports which should be expected.  Too many such incidents are often lauded and worn as a badge of honour.  Secondly, the rule book has not differentiated types of ABH and GBH that should receive appropriate but graduated penalties as found in other sports such as rugby.

GAA rulebook can lean on the legal definitions of ABH and GBH to provide appropriate penalties and needs revision in this area much more than the tinkering with the rules of the game.

greatpoint

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Anybody any clue what McCann was at??

Putting 2 fingers inside another players mouth is a very specific and targeted action. It hard to imagine that it was just made up on the spot. Was he trying to get the gum shield out and engineer a bite mark on his finger?

Irrespective of what punishment the rule book permits the incident is troubling and reflects very badly on the lad

maybe he was provoked?....  there was a a lot of sledging/goading/thrash talking goin on in Donegal fullback line   esp first half
If he’s provoked that badly then hit the man a box in the jaw or else f**k up and play the game. No excuse for that cowardly act when a mans lying on the ground.

Good thing there aren’t any Tyrone fans trying to excuse or justify what he did I suppose.

Sticking his fingers in his mouth is cowardly but boxing him in the jaw is excusable?

That's a very suspect moral ground. Punching someone in the jaw is as trampish as it gets.

I never said either was excusable, perhaps you replied to the wrong person?

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw. You seem fairly blinkered though.

I did quote the wrong post. The reply before that was the one I was referring to.

I would rather have an opponent stick their gloves fingers in my mouth than having a 14 stone athlete box me in the jaw. I would rather be spat on, bit or sledged than being boxed in the jaw. The consequences of those actions are unpleasant but nowhere near as dangerous and likely to have long lasting consequences than a box in the jaw.

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did. In your first reply to me you referred to how "trampish" you considered the act of punching someone and in your very next reply you've switched to talking about the danger and long term consequences of it. What is it exactly you're trying to say?

There are plenty of acts in sports that could be considered "trampish' but not particularly dangerous, and the inherent danger of an act isn't the only parameter that determines the punishment. I'm sure you understand this already though.

Jesus Christ.

Once again, someone is completely missing the point. How many more times will people gloss over the fact that I have said multiple times on here that what McCann did was wrong and indefensible?

I'm commenting on some of the idiots on here who have expressed their outrage at it but seemingly don't seem to have the same outrage when a player is boxed in the face, if I had the choice of someone sticking the fingers in my mouth when I was on the ground or having my meals through a straw for 6 weeks with my jaw wired up then I think I'd have a pretty good idea of which act is the most dangerous and the certainly the most outrageous.

The point is fairly evident if you can read. Boxing a lad in the face is far more dangerous than gouging, diving, spitting, biting, fish hooking etc. It's far more likely to inflict damage on you and potentially lead to life changing consequences but despite that it seems to be far more excusable and acceptable in the GAA world than the aforementioned acts.

We've had a number of posters on here condemning the cowardly nature of what McCann did (I have no qualms wit that) while on the other hand excusing and championing lads boxing each other in the face as some sort of manly and courageous act.

In terms of a hierarchy of offences, punching an opponent in the face is about as malevolent and dangerous as it gets on a sporting pitch yet a large number of posters and pundits seem to excuse that action.

Once again these things that you are attributing to other posters, I did not say. They are not of any relevance to me. Why don’t you actually respond to what I have said to you?

In hiding

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
    • View Profile
Anybody any clue what McCann was at??

Putting 2 fingers inside another players mouth is a very specific and targeted action. It hard to imagine that it was just made up on the spot. Was he trying to get the gum shield out and engineer a bite mark on his finger?

Irrespective of what punishment the rule book permits the incident is troubling and reflects very badly on the lad

maybe he was provoked?....  there was a a lot of sledging/goading/thrash talking goin on in Donegal fullback line   esp first half
If he’s provoked that badly then hit the man a box in the jaw or else f**k up and play the game. No excuse for that cowardly act when a mans lying on the ground.

Good thing there aren’t any Tyrone fans trying to excuse or justify what he did I suppose.

Sticking his fingers in his mouth is cowardly but boxing him in the jaw is excusable?

That's a very suspect moral ground. Punching someone in the jaw is as trampish as it gets.

I never said either was excusable, perhaps you replied to the wrong person?

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw. You seem fairly blinkered though.

I did quote the wrong post. The reply before that was the one I was referring to.

I would rather have an opponent stick their gloves fingers in my mouth than having a 14 stone athlete box me in the jaw. I would rather be spat on, bit or sledged than being boxed in the jaw. The consequences of those actions are unpleasant but nowhere near as dangerous and likely to have long lasting consequences than a box in the jaw.

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did. In your first reply to me you referred to how "trampish" you considered the act of punching someone and in your very next reply you've switched to talking about the danger and long term consequences of it. What is it exactly you're trying to say?

There are plenty of acts in sports that could be considered "trampish' but not particularly dangerous, and the inherent danger of an act isn't the only parameter that determines the punishment. I'm sure you understand this already though.

Jesus Christ.

Once again, someone is completely missing the point. How many more times will people gloss over the fact that I have said multiple times on here that what McCann did was wrong and indefensible?

I'm commenting on some of the idiots on here who have expressed their outrage at it but seemingly don't seem to have the same outrage when a player is boxed in the face, if I had the choice of someone sticking the fingers in my mouth when I was on the ground or having my meals through a straw for 6 weeks with my jaw wired up then I think I'd have a pretty good idea of which act is the most dangerous and the certainly the most outrageous.

The point is fairly evident if you can read. Boxing a lad in the face is far more dangerous than gouging, diving, spitting, biting, fish hooking etc. It's far more likely to inflict damage on you and potentially lead to life changing consequences but despite that it seems to be far more excusable and acceptable in the GAA world than the aforementioned acts.

We've had a number of posters on here condemning the cowardly nature of what McCann did (I have no qualms wit that) while on the other hand excusing and championing lads boxing each other in the face as some sort of manly and courageous act.

In terms of a hierarchy of offences, punching an opponent in the face is about as malevolent and dangerous as it gets on a sporting pitch yet a large number of posters and pundits seem to excuse that action.

Once again these things that you are attributing to other posters, I did not say. They are not of any relevance to me. Why don’t you actually respond to what I have said to you?
[/
quote]

Bomber old chap this is becoming a habit with you

Angelo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
Anybody any clue what McCann was at??

Putting 2 fingers inside another players mouth is a very specific and targeted action. It hard to imagine that it was just made up on the spot. Was he trying to get the gum shield out and engineer a bite mark on his finger?

Irrespective of what punishment the rule book permits the incident is troubling and reflects very badly on the lad

maybe he was provoked?....  there was a a lot of sledging/goading/thrash talking goin on in Donegal fullback line   esp first half
If he’s provoked that badly then hit the man a box in the jaw or else f**k up and play the game. No excuse for that cowardly act when a mans lying on the ground.

Good thing there aren’t any Tyrone fans trying to excuse or justify what he did I suppose.

Sticking his fingers in his mouth is cowardly but boxing him in the jaw is excusable?

That's a very suspect moral ground. Punching someone in the jaw is as trampish as it gets.

I never said either was excusable, perhaps you replied to the wrong person?

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw. You seem fairly blinkered though.

I did quote the wrong post. The reply before that was the one I was referring to.

I would rather have an opponent stick their gloves fingers in my mouth than having a 14 stone athlete box me in the jaw. I would rather be spat on, bit or sledged than being boxed in the jaw. The consequences of those actions are unpleasant but nowhere near as dangerous and likely to have long lasting consequences than a box in the jaw.

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did. In your first reply to me you referred to how "trampish" you considered the act of punching someone and in your very next reply you've switched to talking about the danger and long term consequences of it. What is it exactly you're trying to say?

There are plenty of acts in sports that could be considered "trampish' but not particularly dangerous, and the inherent danger of an act isn't the only parameter that determines the punishment. I'm sure you understand this already though.

Jesus Christ.

Once again, someone is completely missing the point. How many more times will people gloss over the fact that I have said multiple times on here that what McCann did was wrong and indefensible?

I'm commenting on some of the idiots on here who have expressed their outrage at it but seemingly don't seem to have the same outrage when a player is boxed in the face, if I had the choice of someone sticking the fingers in my mouth when I was on the ground or having my meals through a straw for 6 weeks with my jaw wired up then I think I'd have a pretty good idea of which act is the most dangerous and the certainly the most outrageous.

The point is fairly evident if you can read. Boxing a lad in the face is far more dangerous than gouging, diving, spitting, biting, fish hooking etc. It's far more likely to inflict damage on you and potentially lead to life changing consequences but despite that it seems to be far more excusable and acceptable in the GAA world than the aforementioned acts.

We've had a number of posters on here condemning the cowardly nature of what McCann did (I have no qualms wit that) while on the other hand excusing and championing lads boxing each other in the face as some sort of manly and courageous act.

In terms of a hierarchy of offences, punching an opponent in the face is about as malevolent and dangerous as it gets on a sporting pitch yet a large number of posters and pundits seem to excuse that action.

Once again these things that you are attributing to other posters, I did not say. They are not of any relevance to me. Why don’t you actually respond to what I have said to you?

Well that is bizarre in the extreme as you are contradicting yourself and you don't seem to be asking anything that I haven't already answered. Let's back up over the exchange.

You said:

Just because for some reason you'd be happy enough with someone gouging, biting, or spitting on you doesn't diminish what McCann did.

Never have I defended the actions of McCann in this thread, from my very first post on this issue to my last - I have condemned his actions as wrong, indefensible and trampish so it's utterly bizarre you're saying I'm defending him or those actions. Violent behaviour has no place on a football pitch but there's far worse accepted in the game than those.

You also said this:

By the way I suspect the majority of GAA supporters would consider the act of gouging another player as they lie on the ground a more "trampish" act than openly punching an opponent in the jaw.

And see my earlier post regarding thoughts on this. The most trampish and the most dangerous thing you can do on a football pitch is box someone in the face, it's the most cowardly act you can commit. The fact that this seems more acceptable on a GAA pitch than gouging, verbals, diving, spitting etc (which are quite rightly condemned across the board) is something that is inherently wrong in the GAA. When you have an idiot like Colm O'Rourke consistently talking up the manliness of punching someone in the face (and never met with contention) then it's something that will always seem to be accepted in the game.

And it's hard to square up the outrage regarding incidents like McCann (which have merit) when punching someone in the face is downplayed or championed by the GAA community.

Now maybe you'll finally address why it gets up your back so much than claiming punching someone in the face and head on a GAA pitch is more negligent, violent, dangerous and trampish than spitting, gouging, diving verbals etc?




smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
For the record I think that as a sport we do need to crack down on punches. I don’t think players consent to being punched and I’m happy for those throwing punches to face criminal charges.

An aside about punches is that there are players that are quite prepared to throw punches and even to engineer circumstances where punching would be considered to a certain audience legitimate. Other players don’t have this view but lose control and end up throwing punches. I don’t excuse their behaviour and their lack of discipline and self control should be rightly punished.

Tiernan McCann’s actions are strange and in my experience unique. Hence I ask what his motivations and intent were. It’s inarguably the case that he engages in the very targeted action to attempting to remove the gum shield. The speed with which he triggers those actions makes it impossible to believe that the action is premeditated (that he will do it or at least attempt to do it should the opportunity arise). If he has thought about it and decided to proceed then he believes the action to be acceptable. So my question remains - what is going on in his head?

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7320
    • View Profile
I remember saying back in 2011, when Connolly got his ban overturned after clearly striking the Donegal player in the throat, that all strikes/contact to the head and neck should be a straight red.

Players knew they couldn’t throw a punch, but they now grab by the throat, neck or face. Or in examples like Connolly, striking in the throat. And in most occasions, players are receiving no punishment for doing so.

We need to follow soccers example. Any contact with the head or neck area, straight red, no question. Player safety is paramount.

lenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
    • View Profile
For the record I think that as a sport we do need to crack down on punches. I don’t think players consent to being punched and I’m happy for those throwing punches to face criminal charges.

An aside about punches is that there are players that are quite prepared to throw punches and even to engineer circumstances where punching would be considered to a certain audience legitimate. Other players don’t have this view but lose control and end up throwing punches. I don’t excuse their behaviour and their lack of discipline and self control should be rightly punished.

Tiernan McCann’s actions are strange and in my experience unique. Hence I ask what his motivations and intent were. It’s inarguably the case that he engages in the very targeted action to attempting to remove the gum shield. The speed with which he triggers those actions makes it impossible to believe that the action is premeditated (that he will do it or at least attempt to do it should the opportunity arise). If he has thought about it and decided to proceed then he believes the action to be acceptable. So my question remains - what is going on in his head?

He first makes contact with the Donegal players eye. I think he was trying to gouge his eye but the Donegal players movement meant that McCann ends up grabbing his mouth. We’ll never know but that’s the way I saw it and I’ve yet to be convinced otherwise. I also think deliberately gouging another players eye should be a lifetime ban. In this case it obviously couldn’t be proven that he tried to gouge but that looked like his intention to me.

Angelo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
For the record I think that as a sport we do need to crack down on punches. I don’t think players consent to being punched and I’m happy for those throwing punches to face criminal charges.

An aside about punches is that there are players that are quite prepared to throw punches and even to engineer circumstances where punching would be considered to a certain audience legitimate. Other players don’t have this view but lose control and end up throwing punches. I don’t excuse their behaviour and their lack of discipline and self control should be rightly punished.

Tiernan McCann’s actions are strange and in my experience unique. Hence I ask what his motivations and intent were. It’s inarguably the case that he engages in the very targeted action to attempting to remove the gum shield. The speed with which he triggers those actions makes it impossible to believe that the action is premeditated (that he will do it or at least attempt to do it should the opportunity arise). If he has thought about it and decided to proceed then he believes the action to be acceptable. So my question remains - what is going on in his head?

He first makes contact with the Donegal players eye. I think he was trying to gouge his eye but the Donegal players movement meant that McCann ends up grabbing his mouth. We’ll never know but that’s the way I saw it and I’ve yet to be convinced otherwise. I also think deliberately gouging another players eye should be a lifetime ban. In this case it obviously couldn’t be proven that he tried to gouge but that looked like his intention to me.

If deliberately gouging an opponent's eye should be a lifetime ban, what should deliberately striking an opponent in the face be?