Author Topic: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar  (Read 16007 times)

lenny

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 07:29:29 AM »
I'm in full agreement that the game would be best served by reverting to a heavier sliotar. The ball used today travels so far that you would think they're hitting a tennis ball. Teams are knocking up basketball scores and the bloody ball is ping-ponging from one end of the field to the other  :(

Hurling was my first love but I'm disenamoured with today's game - the main reasons are the light sliotar, the absence of ground hurling and first time pulling on the ball. How many time do you see groups of players mullocking over the ball, trying to get it into their hand instead of driving the thing up the field (to hell with the possession game). Back in the 80's you could get a spell of ground hurling that would electrify the crowd.

In games nowadays, there are still huge passages of play which are absorbing - hooks and blocks at full pelt then somebody gets a score after 2mins of hell for leather hurling.

Couldn't beat it - no need to change what is already fantastic.

I remember reading an article about this last winter.  The teams can pick their own brand of sliotars for the championship season.  Therefore there will be a huge variation in distances the sliotars travel.  That's why opposition try to 'pinch' the keepers' sliotar bag and chuck it away.

The article also stated that there'll be yellow sliotars available shortly - with red stitching as it's been trialled and is best for the human eye.  They will also be a chip in each sliotar, which, using an app, can check the weight and all sliotars will be standardised.

Can anyone else remember this article?

The chip in it sounds like a great idea. That should make it easier for tv cameras to follow it and hopefully use the pro tracer to show the trajectory of sidelines and frees.

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 08:10:30 AM »
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently


clonadmad

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 08:23:54 AM »
Leave Hurling alone FFS

If it’s not broken don’t fix it

Instead of pricking around with this non issue,instead focus on getting the likes of Carlow,Laois,Kildare,Meath,Westmeath up to a point where they can compete with the top 8 or 9

And for the love of god,will someone stage an intervention with Offaly hurling

I don't like this talk of intervention - look at where that got us with the injection of funds into Dublin !

The best means of improving "2nd tier" hurling counties is for these counties to engage top coaches from established counties
- obviously there needs to be raw material to work with and top coaches are not two a penny.
Examples where this has worked in the past:
Dermot Healy was key to Offaly's breakthrough in 1981
Georgie Leahy, RIP, did great work with Laois in the 1980s.

I wasn’t suggesting a Dublin sized financial support for Offaly,they’ve already had a bailout in relation to O’Connor Park

Best outside coaches cost money,the money needs to spent at grassroots level in terms of more GDA’s and support for hurling in those counties

Healy would have had very little to work with at adult level if the likes of Bro.Dennis hadnt done the work at juvenile level and post primary level
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:05:08 PM by clonadmad »

Franko

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 08:46:36 AM »
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

1.  See bold.

2.  How exactly would a heavier sliothar help this situation?

Milltown Row2

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2019, 12:08:49 AM »
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2019, 11:06:23 AM »
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
sure Waterford v Tipp was barely competitive last weekend in the hurling

how many football championship games have RTE actually shown this year???

Franko

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2019, 04:23:21 PM »
Hurling (at the top level ONLY) is going through a golden age at the minute.

Why would you want to try to fix something which is so obviously not broken?

Completely agree. There's damn all wrong with the game and it's never been more popular.
is it more popular though? more popular where? on tv?
the hurling clubs of Longford, Wicklow, Roscommon, Offaly might say differently

If we were using GAA football as an example then its far more enjoyable to watch. Even a blind man can see that
sure Waterford v Tipp was barely competitive last weekend in the hurling

how many football championship games have RTE actually shown this year???

OK, 3 things;

1 - What point do you think you are making by bringing up this one-off game?

2 - RTE don't show many football games before the super 8's

3 - The reason they do this is because the early rounds of the football are generally unwatchable compared to your average Munster hurling clash.

Well done on proving everyone else right here.


The Boy Wonder

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2019, 03:02:10 PM »

Milltown Row2

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2019, 03:35:34 PM »
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.

Many? You and one other person on here. Who da f**k drop pucks a ball? And why would you do it ? Volleying in the air is pointless unless you’re on the edge of the square, gaining possession and passing and shooting is a skill, plenty hooking and blocking going on in all games I’ve watched, high fielding for me is one of the best skills about and plenty on show!

Anyone who wants to make changes for hurling based on a ‘lighter’ ball is bunkers, games and tactics evolve, I agree the standard size and weight of ball should be same across the board, even agree the hurls should be within a set standard also.
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2019, 04:50:19 PM »
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.
I don't agree with most of that
The rules are fine.
Enforce them e.g. hurley size, sliotars weight, steps taken by players and the throwing of handpasses
Most sliotars are made in Pakistan now and there is no regulations on them. Irish made balls would twice as expensive, at least. But you could put some control on them.

The Boy Wonder

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2019, 05:08:28 PM »
I've pasted some pieces from the article below and emboldened some key points.

"If very high scoring in every game is what you want, then everything is fine, but there's more to it than that. People come to see the skills of hurling and good contests, but just because there are lots of scores, it doesn't always mean that there's great skill involved in getting them," said Pat Daly, GAA director of games and research.”

"As for skills like overhead striking, ground hurling, volleying and drop pucks, you hardly ever see them now. It's all about getting the ball into the hand and with the ball being driven enormous distances, some games are being decided from well beyond the halfway line.
"Accurate long-range striking is a skill but at what stage do you say the ball is being driven too far and taking other skills out of the game. People like to see contests, but there are fewer of them when the ball is travelling such long distances," said Daly.


Eddie Keher, one of the best ball-strikers of all-time, recalls when pointing a '70' ('65' nowadays) was regarded as a fine achievement. Despite his status as one of the best free-takers in history, his comfort zone extended to around 55 yards, with Pat Henderson taking over from further out.
"The ball and the hurley were a lot different then. The ball was a lot heavier and the hurleys weren't as good as they are today. It's like golf. Technology has enabled players to drive the ball a lot further in golf and it's the same in hurling.
"Whether it's good for the game to have the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time is another matter," said Keher, whose Kilkenny career embraced three decades (1950s-'60s-'70s).”


Hurling supporters will have different opinions - reading between the line I get the feeling that Eddie Keher would not be a fan of the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time. I'm of an age that I was lucky enough to see Eddie and his peers in action in the flesh many times. Of course the game evolves over the years - in some aspects for the better but in others aspects for the worse.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 05:37:38 PM »
I've pasted some pieces from the article below and emboldened some key points.

"If very high scoring in every game is what you want, then everything is fine, but there's more to it than that. People come to see the skills of hurling and good contests, but just because there are lots of scores, it doesn't always mean that there's great skill involved in getting them," said Pat Daly, GAA director of games and research.”

"As for skills like overhead striking, ground hurling, volleying and drop pucks, you hardly ever see them now. It's all about getting the ball into the hand and with the ball being driven enormous distances, some games are being decided from well beyond the halfway line.
"Accurate long-range striking is a skill but at what stage do you say the ball is being driven too far and taking other skills out of the game. People like to see contests, but there are fewer of them when the ball is travelling such long distances," said Daly.


Eddie Keher, one of the best ball-strikers of all-time, recalls when pointing a '70' ('65' nowadays) was regarded as a fine achievement. Despite his status as one of the best free-takers in history, his comfort zone extended to around 55 yards, with Pat Henderson taking over from further out.
"The ball and the hurley were a lot different then. The ball was a lot heavier and the hurleys weren't as good as they are today. It's like golf. Technology has enabled players to drive the ball a lot further in golf and it's the same in hurling.
"Whether it's good for the game to have the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time is another matter," said Keher, whose Kilkenny career embraced three decades (1950s-'60s-'70s).”


Hurling supporters will have different opinions - reading between the line I get the feeling that Eddie Keher would not be a fan of the ball travelling 110 or 120 metres all the time. I'm of an age that I was lucky enough to see Eddie and his peers in action in the flesh many times. Of course the game evolves over the years - in some aspects for the better but in others aspects for the worse.

If you actually sit down and watch a match from the 60’s and a game between Kilkenny and Tipp a few years ago it be chalk and cheese, dreadful in fairness, that’s not a poor reflection on Eddie it’s just the game has moved on. If you’ve done a bitta coaching or managing lately you’ll not tell a player to pull it in the air or play ground hurling, you’d be laughed out of the pitch.

Ground hurling had its place and Fenton’s goal is one of the best, but he pulled on the ball in open space and it traveled like a cannonball, if a player in a ruck plays the ball on the ground it can go anywhere, that’s not a skill, being able to dip a ball in a ruck and come away cleanly is a harder skill than lashing a ball aimlessly.

And driven too far? What do we want forty passes before we score? Pure nonsense from Daly, in all seriousness the games never been better the top level is brilliant, even the Joe mcdonagh cup has produced some cracking games, it could do with some exposure too. Scoring over twenty points was a target a visiting coach said to us one time, that was over 20 years ago, the goals will come but hit 10 points each half and you should be there or thereabouts.

Making a ball lighter won’t make it go over the bar, the talented player with great accuracy does that
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

kerryforsam19

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 06:22:09 PM »
Does the Wetsmeath physio need a heavier sliother??

burdizzo

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 11:03:54 PM »
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/martin-breheny-a-fivepoint-goal-two-points-for-other-scores-and-an-end-to-rugbyisation-of-hurling-38146640.html

Don't shoot the messenger (Martin Breheny) - many will agree that the message is very pertinent.

Breheny was banging this drum 35 years ago, when the sliothar was heavy, and there were hardly a dozen points per match.

Keyser Söze

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Re: Hurling Needs a heavier sliotar
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 11:16:53 PM »
IMO the heavier the sliothar the more the game can morph into football.
The only thing saving hurling from blanket defences is the ability to score from 80-90m.
Long may it continue.
Also, despite the fact that goalkeepers can land the ball on the far 21, all top level teams will first and foremost attempt to put the ball into a team mates hand 30-60m away from the restarts. Only when this option is cut off will goalkeepers go for misile launching.
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