Author Topic: Hurling Championship 2019  (Read 54026 times)

Ball Hopper

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #450 on: August 19, 2019, 09:20:37 PM »
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back

Is Hawkeye saying all the sliothar was behind the crossbar yesterday?

AZOffaly

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #451 on: August 19, 2019, 09:28:32 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!

I’d like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye’s view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!

I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.

AZOffaly

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #452 on: August 19, 2019, 09:29:48 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!

Would the 2 uprights not get in the way of getting a proper view?

Not if the ball was completely over because the posts are the same width as the crossbar.

imtommygunn

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #453 on: August 19, 2019, 09:43:01 PM »
Tipp keeper adamant it wasn’t over the bar. Didn’t think it was myself.

I only thought Hawkeye did between the posts. If Hawkeye deems it over the bar could they not show it? Would love to see how they set it up to do this.

Ball Hopper

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #454 on: August 19, 2019, 09:47:06 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!

I’d like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye’s view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!

I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.

So Hawkeye "beeps" (insert correct technical term here) when any part of the ball goes behind the back of the crossbar.

I'll bet a clarification will be brought out soon (before next year's league) that all the ball must pass 100% behind the crossbar for a point or 100% over the line and under the crossbar for a goal.  Although the wording as is "..ball is played over the goal-line..."kind of insinuates that all of the ball must be over the line.

Maybe a few of us can ramble out to Croke Park with a few sliothars and a ladder (or bring Brian Hogan with us) and carry out some experiments for the GAA.




Bord na Mona man

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #455 on: August 19, 2019, 11:04:16 PM »
I find it irritating commentators, pundits, journalists referring to John O Dwyer as bubbles. Bubbles this and bubbles that, feck off, shower of eggits.
Sports commentators shouldn't be using nicknames in the first place.
Could you imagine a soccer commentator saying that Psycho Pearce has passed the ball to Sicknote Anderton?

Ball Hopper

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #456 on: August 20, 2019, 12:45:07 AM »
With the speed of restarts after a score or wide, should TV not bother with the replay, as they often miss the resumption of play.  Resumptions are critical these days.  Goes for hurling and football.

Never beat the deeler

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #457 on: August 20, 2019, 05:56:43 AM »
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back

source?
Hasta la victoria siempre

seafoid

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #458 on: August 20, 2019, 09:19:38 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/liam-sheedy-i-wouldn-t-be-an-all-ireland-champion-manager-only-for-eamon-o-shea-1.3990999

Liam Sheedy: ‘I wouldn’t be an All-Ireland champion manager only for Eamon O’Shea’
Tommy Dunne on the alchemy that makes the Tipp backroom tick
about 3 hours ago
Gavin Cummiskey

 
There’s a warm glow inside the old Burlington hotel on this Monday morning after Tipperary topple Kilkenny. All comers from all counties. Anthony Daly and Derek McGrath giggle in the corner. Ger Cunningham stalls to say hello.

Here ends a decade embalmed by Tipp’s hurling greatness. We gather on high stools to listen to groggy yet clear-eyed champions speak as freely and accurately as their hurling flowed the day before.

We seek out Eamon O’Shea. Be it glory or misery, the professor of economics always weaves a story to soar the imagination. A man of many hues; an epidemiologist, the Tipperary manager from 2012 to 2015 (when Kilkenny twice snatched the All-Ireland spoils), a “spontaneously” gifted coach who conjures hurling alchemy whenever the chord is connected to Liam Sheedy. 

Eamon is nowhere to be found but we are gifted something far better.Tommy Dunne tries but happily fails to explain what makes O’Shea so special,then Sheedy speaks about his old pal.

Dunne, the 2001 All-Ireland-winning captain, is asked how O’Shea’s return to the fold following the National League impacted on the management and specifically his own role.

“I wasn’t really head coach,” Dunne explains. “It is a kind of unique coaching environment. Liam is a very hands-on coach. Darragh [Egan] is a hands-on coach as well. Myself and Darragh did most of the coaching in the pre-season and after Christmas, and then Eamon came in.

“It was a terrific boost for us all. We just kind of let it flow and felt it out amongst ourselves. The dynamic and chemistry was good from the very start.”

O’Shea’s rhythmic voice was the last any Tipperary hurler heard before throw-in last Sunday.

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“It’s not something that fits into a box really,” Dunne continues. “Eamon’s style is very spontaneous. Very, very significant understanding of the game and he has a lot of experience with this group and with Liam over many years. That’s a huge part of it.


“Part of the reason this thing works so well is there was no real overload on any one person; different people doing different things at different times. Hopefully the players got value out of that.”

The sight of O’Shea running water bottles into players must wash a wave of humility over this Tipperary panel.

“You are there to make the group better and help the player improve, that’s your only function as a coach, and obviously to ensure they turn into a cohesive team and playing to a system and a style that is true to itself. That’s what we are all there for.

“If you are to ask me how the dynamic works I wouldn’t be able to put it into words. It’s just something that we took on a session by session basis and always measured on what was important for players.”

That was Dunne. We could head away happy but before Sheedy’s hoarse ode to Eamon we must tell a story about an emotional O’Shea speaking in Nowlan Park. It’s July 2013 and unseen mishaps – Dublin caught Kilkenny while Limerick beat Tipp – landed hurling’s alpha dogs in a unique do or die qualifier. The Marble City was aflame with anticipation. Lar Corbett’s hamstring exploded as Henry Shefflin walked off the field with drenched Tipperary jersey stuck to his body.

“These guys are honourable men who went to fight today,” O’Shea said afterwards. “They came out on the wrong side of the fight, but these are men of honour. These will be men of honour in the future.

“Whatever happens, we just lost a game by three points. We didn’t lose what’s in Tipperary. This team, a lot of them, with the guys coming behind them, will be back in the next couple of years. That I’m certain of.”

Brian Cody uttered exactly the same sentiment on Sunday evening.   

Back to this Monday morning and Sheedy is asked how important it was to rope O’Shea back into the fold.

“Myself and Eamon O’Shea have a special relationship, there’s no other words for it. We started back in 2008 and we went on a journey and the journey finished in 2010.”

He was only ever climbing the Hogan steps with O’Shea on his shoulder.

“The reality is I wouldn’t be sitting here today as an All-Ireland champion manager only for Eamon O’Shea. He has a special connection to me and he has a special connection to all the players and he just brings the best out of everyone.

“Eamon O’Shea is a very busy man. He has a hectic schedule. As I said, sometimes people just click and me and Eamon O’Shea click and click very well. As I said, I couldn’t visualise myself going on this journey without having Eamon by my side and on my shoulder. Just thrilled this morning now, it’s pure elation because we done it together in 2010 and here we are. It was a special moment in 2010 going up and throwing up the cup and yesterday, to do it again with Eamon by my side is a very special moment.”

Sated, the media escape Dublin 4 just as the Tipperary bus takes The Liam MacCarthy Cup coloured blue and gold to Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital in Crumlin.
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dublin7

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #459 on: August 20, 2019, 11:01:51 AM »
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back

source?

Various GAA press releases. Piece in the Indo after Tipp beat Wexford in the semi final also confirms hawkeye is responsible for checking if ball has crossed the bar not the umpires in situations like sunday:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/refs-to-review-hawkeye-intervention-guidelines-following-john-mcgrath-disallowed-goal-controversy-38357774.html




 

Hound

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #460 on: August 20, 2019, 04:03:02 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!

I’d like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye’s view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!

I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.

The replays showed clearly that it was not a point. There was probably the smallest fraction of the sliothar over the "line".

The Hawkeye graphic even showed the line changing colour where the keeper caught it. The second colour showed the trajectory the ball would have taken had the keeper not caught it. And that was enough for Hawkeye to grant the point. Utter BS!

hardstation

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #461 on: August 20, 2019, 04:10:02 PM »
How can they tell the difference between the keeper’s hand and the ball when he’s holding it?

They’ll need to review that. Neither of those given this year looked like points.


Minder

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #462 on: August 20, 2019, 11:31:45 PM »
O’Donoghue steps down in Galway
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

bogieman

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #463 on: August 21, 2019, 12:45:23 AM »

They weren't points going by the views available on TV, and the physical dimensions of the bar, the slitoar, and how far back a man's arm, wrist and hand can bend backwards. Then we have the claimed 3.6mm hawkeye accuracy, but this claim is only verified for tennis courts with a fluffy 67mm diameter ball.

It's too detailed to go into the size of a gaelic pitch, the position of the cameras, their field of view, and the actual resolution of the image pixels, but needless to say it wouldn't be good marketing for Sony.

Then we can go onto the statistical error introduced with the vibration of the cameras when the stands have thousands of fans in them, they can't be assumed to be rock solid...

It's oblivious that Súil an tSeabhaic was not properly calibrated for this; the gaa pays thousands of yoyos for each game that uses hawkeye for their technicians, they nor certainty not Steve Carter will admit this calibration issue. Next year we will see the graphics when it's sorted out properly... But we may not know the inherent errors.

I'm a fan of this technology, but I would like to know the limitations, the value of CV for different ball positions.


Ps. By rule, the sliotar diameter is 70.5 +/-1.5mm, the crossbar when round should be 125 +5mm, and lines should be 90 +/-13mm wide.
Boundary lines form the field of play, and the intersections shall have a flag, which is also included in the play rules.

To clarify;
A. the whole of the ball must be over the whole of the line to be a goal - not currently assessed by hawkeye, for a few dollars more...
B. the whole of the ball must be over the whole of the crossbar to be a point
C. If the ball touches a flag during play, it's a line ball.

So Croke park has a few issues to sort between their gaa rules, and their implementation, namely;
The crossbars diameter are not the correct dimension
The flags are placed in the incorrect position
Specific detail of the resolution and calibration of hawkeye needs to be released for the Croke park installation.

Pss. It has to be accepted before any sensible argument starts that hawkeye is not infallible, there are scientific and technical limitations, notwithstanding the human error. The technical detail has not been released for a reason, eluded to above...

Psss. Hawkeye only needs to "see" a fraction of the ball to work out its center free space co-ordinate position when it has the correct ball diameter parameter, so to validate a point, has the score area "vertical plane" been calibrated for a 90 or a 125 mm crossbar, or calibrated accurately at all, my opinion is the latter because up till now, the only controversies being the whole of the ball inside the posts...

Pssss I wonder if they have taken account of the 2.4 +/-0.4mm rib on the sliothar


This is not Irish dancing. -RH

Main Street

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Re: Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #464 on: August 21, 2019, 10:02:11 PM »
With all thisKilkenny talk about manliness in hurling,  Kilkenny are still whining like hungry piglets about the red card decision. Can't they lose a game in a manly fashion?

Tipp already demonstrated they could win after going a man down and overturn a 5 point deficet in the doing.