Author Topic: Elections North and South  (Read 32651 times)

smelmoth

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #315 on: May 23, 2019, 11:17:17 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter

I suppose like the rest of us you judge her as you see fit like we all do to people in public life you will vote accordingly.

Itís interesting to see how people make those judgements. Do they see he violent past as a plus? If so how/why and if so are political roles just a way for pensioning off bombers?

Is her violent participation irrelevant but her republican views important? If so why- what relevance does if have in the European Parliament?

Is all of this irrelevant and her supporters genuinely think she is the person best qualified to deliver for NI? If so what is the actual evidence? We had that tweet from Daire Hughes but there is nothing noteworthy in it.

When her supporters canít point to anything noteworthy in her political track record it hard to escape the conclusion that they view the political representation of the people of NI as a handy means of pensioning off volunteers. Future generations are unlikely to judge this kindly

Keyser soze

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #316 on: May 23, 2019, 11:29:23 AM »
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd

magpie seanie

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #317 on: May 23, 2019, 12:03:17 PM »
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.

Rossfan

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #318 on: May 23, 2019, 12:32:17 PM »
Seriously thinking of giving her the No.1 instead of Ming.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

RedHand88

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #319 on: May 23, 2019, 12:58:44 PM »
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Taylor

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #320 on: May 23, 2019, 01:01:37 PM »
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.

Orior

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #321 on: May 23, 2019, 01:17:51 PM »
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.

Youíre not swayed by Jim Ďstraight talkingí Allister?
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

magpie seanie

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #322 on: May 23, 2019, 01:36:56 PM »
Seriously thinking of giving her the No.1 instead of Ming.


Ming was getting my #1, now getting #2. He's a bit messy but well intentioned and honest and has similar views on the EU to myself (i.e. it has done good, it has done bad but I don't want a federal Europe). Has the interests of the people in the constituency at heart. That last bit should be a prerequisite for all candidates but sadly now it's the exception.

Cyril Brennan also did well I thought as did Hannigan from Labour.

general_lee

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #323 on: May 23, 2019, 01:40:01 PM »
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Taylor

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #324 on: May 23, 2019, 01:41:14 PM »
I really can't decide where to put my number 2.

Not a euphemism.

Hard to tell who has the better chance at seat 3 between Long and Eastwood. Alot of SF voters I know transferring to Long.

Still undecided but considering 1. Long  2. Anderson  3. Eastwood.

Youíre not swayed by Jim Ďstraight talkingí Allister?

A t**ser of the highest order. Would you ever tire of punching his face?

currychip

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #325 on: May 23, 2019, 01:47:41 PM »
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

Owenmoresider

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #326 on: May 23, 2019, 02:00:44 PM »
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.
Won't be giving her any preference, nothing against her personally but the Greens and their fellow travellers are anathema to me. Won't take too long to fill in the European ballot paper though, about 6/7 strokes and that'll be it.

smelmoth

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #327 on: May 23, 2019, 02:11:25 PM »
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Canít comment on the RU debate that I didnít hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. Itís a very Belfast thing but Allianceís presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of ďwhatever you are heaving yourselfĒ and more a case of ďcan you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits ď. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

smelmoth

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #328 on: May 23, 2019, 02:12:57 PM »
Had picked up a bit yesterday on Twitter about Saoirse McHugh of the Green Party and how well she did on RTE's Primetime debate for the Midlands North West Euro constituency so decided to throw on RTE player when I went home from work yesterday. It didn't disappoint. She was brilliant. Cut the legs off that odious shyster Casey repeatedly and presented a common sense, well thought out policy platform. Further research I've done on her has proved equally impressive. It's a long shot but her support is growing. I think she's exactly the type of politician we need. I'll be voting #1 for her tomorrow. I think people in that constituency should strongly consider doing likewise.
Won't be giving her any preference, nothing against her personally but the Greens and their fellow travellers are anathema to me. Won't take too long to fill in the European ballot paper though, about 6/7 strokes and that'll be it.
ďThe wrong side of historyĒ springs to mind

smelmoth

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Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #329 on: May 23, 2019, 02:19:03 PM »
The condescension from some posters in this thread is making me lol.

Moving the moral high ground to Olympus ... and beyoooooooonnnnnddddd
Aye itís shocking. But again itís just shinner bashing no matter how people try to dress it up. Letís look at Naomi Long, did she not as an MP vote in favour of airstrikes in the Middle East? yet people are trying to decide between her and Eastwood. Realistically, if youíre opposed to violence itís a no brainer...

Sure itís easy to dismiss criticism of Shinner bashing. Is John Finucane being bashed? Maybe he has that bit more ability. Andersonís political track record does get challenged for a reason

As far as I recall Long voted against Syrian strikes but for Iraqi strikes and was able to link that differential to conditions on the ground and options available within the timescale. She made the point that strikes alone were insufficient. The 40 odd MPs to vote against what alternatives did they point to and how would they have addressed the mass slaughter being perpetuated by IS?