Author Topic: Elections North and South  (Read 32610 times)

currychip

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #300 on: May 22, 2019, 03:57:38 PM »
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy. 

GJL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1812
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #301 on: May 22, 2019, 04:13:12 PM »
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.

I always thought that 50%+1 wouldnít be a smooth transition. I am increasingly of that view. Have I clearly changed my mind?

Your example is shockingly poorly thought out

I could be wrong but I assume you did not help write the GFA?

marty34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #302 on: May 22, 2019, 06:36:04 PM »
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Mallon wants a few soundbites...must have a book coming out...ohhh wait!

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #303 on: May 23, 2019, 08:57:18 AM »
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Mallon wants a few soundbites...must have a book coming out...ohhh wait!

Man promoting interview says something interesting and journalist quotes him. Shock

Keepers there are candidates in todayís elections that have done things a lot more shocking than that

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #304 on: May 23, 2019, 09:00:55 AM »
When you vote Tomorrow in the North there is only 1 Pro European Nationalist candidate on the ballot. Always was Pro European and always campaigned positively for Europe. And most importantly campaigned for a Remain vote in the Brexit referendum. Only 1 on the ballot. If you're a pro European Nationalist then Colum Eastwood should get your 1st preference.

It's only in recent years the SDLP have started playing the nationalist card and that will stick in the craw for some of us.
 
They'll still get on my ballot paper, but they've a bit of work to do to build on those nationalist credentials a bit more yet.

Far too quick to lie down to big house Unionism in the past.
Too insignificant in recent years to matter.

When was this? At the birth of the Civil rights? When they campaigned for equality and the right to vote long before it became trendy? When they reached out to the IRA and convinced it's leadership of the benefits of a ceasefire or maybe when they helped to bring an end to 30 years of violence when they negotiated the GFA?

They're the only Nationalist Party on the Ballot who have been consistent in their Pro-European credentials. They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.

Seamus Mallon last week:

''I have come increasingly to the view that the Good Friday Agreement measurement of a bare majority (effectively 50%+1) for unity will not give us the kind of agreed and peaceful Ireland we seek.''


This is the GFA that he helped write...

Yes and SF signed up to it! If you think 50+1 will give us a peaceful United Ireland then you are delusional. Mallon is correct.

I'm not disputing that. I am however calling bullsh1t on your claim that..

''They don't change their view depending upon what others are for or against.''


Mallon has clearly changed his view in this instance.

I always thought that 50%+1 wouldnít be a smooth transition. I am increasingly of that view. Have I clearly changed my mind?

Your example is shockingly poorly thought out

I could be wrong but I assume you did not help write the GFA?

You are 100% correct. I didnít help write GFA

There is the same evidence that Mallon and I have changed our mind. And it is ok to change your mind. Only a dogmatic idiot would refuse to change their mind if the evidence changed or emerged more clearly

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #305 on: May 23, 2019, 09:11:53 AM »
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Donít think he is in Longís league plus Allianceís group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Donít think he is in Longís league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isnít flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TVís initiative, the Fianna FŠil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they donít give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

trailer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2025
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #306 on: May 23, 2019, 09:13:22 AM »

general_lee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #307 on: May 23, 2019, 09:53:12 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/

f**k didnít know Jamie Bryson was on the board

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #308 on: May 23, 2019, 10:27:46 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

trailer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2025
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #309 on: May 23, 2019, 10:39:19 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #310 on: May 23, 2019, 10:45:47 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?


smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1239
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #311 on: May 23, 2019, 10:48:55 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter

trailer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2025
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #312 on: May 23, 2019, 10:50:29 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?
General Lee above. See Jamie Bryson line - deflection.

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?

So everyone knows. Deflection.
Your point about the author is pure whataboutery. He's not running for Election to the European parliament. Anderson should be held to a higher authority as she is.

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #313 on: May 23, 2019, 10:59:11 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

I make no comment on the article or it author. But in respect of Andersonís violent history it has already been quoted here as a reason for voting for her. So which is it? Do we judge her on her violent past and afford her political credentials based on that or do we judge her on her abilities and track record as a politician? Iím happy to do the latter

I suppose like the rest of us you judge her as you see fit like we all do to people in public life you will vote accordingly.



johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #314 on: May 23, 2019, 11:06:46 AM »
Martina Anderson, the IRA and her Disappeared Victims

https://irishpeaceprocess.blog/2019/05/20/martina-anderson-the-ira-and-her-disappeared-victims/


Is the author of the piece allowed to have his own "awakening" for his past misdeeds but Martina isn't?

Getting as bad as Jim Allister at this stage.

You can deflect by attacking me or the author but this is just facts about who she is and what her background is.

Who's attacking you?
General Lee above. See Jamie Bryson line - deflection.

Some facts and some conjecture in there and who doesn't know this at this stage in her political career?

Should Shane Paul O'Doherty be made walk around in sackcloth and ashes for his previous life as well as Martina?

So everyone knows. Deflection.
Your point about the author is pure whataboutery. He's not running for Election to the European parliament. Anderson should be held to a higher authority as she is.

Didn't see General Lee's comment and it's nothing to do with me.

Anderson doesn't shy away from her past and it's well documented for all to see.

Vote as you see fit Trailer.