Author Topic: Elections North and South  (Read 32854 times)

Fionntamhnach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2758
  • "If I won the award for laziness, I'd send somebody to pick it up for me."
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #420 on: May 28, 2019, 02:26:08 PM »
A fair percentage of those must be Foreign Nationals cant think of many other reasons for it other than not knowing the lie of the land.
Not entirely unprecedented. Back in the 2014 EU election when Anderson topped the poll & cleared the quota, distributing the surplus votes revealed that over a thousand ballot papers that had her as their first preference had UKIP as their next eligible preference (only the Conservative candidate was eliminated before the surplus transfer) which meant that these papers had SF 1 & UKIP 2 or SF 1, Con 2 & UKIP 3!
Fighting against ignorance on the internet since 1999. It's just taking longer than I hoped.

trailer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #421 on: May 28, 2019, 02:51:46 PM »
Quote from: smelmoth link=topic=29178.msg1897960#msg1897960 date=1558b529588
Given that an MEP will do zero to advance the case of Nationalism or Unionism does anyone want to make the case why there 1st preference will be the top performer in the role if elected?

SDLP are part of PES who have been vocal on a range of issues but importantly, migrant issues and workers rights. They also fully believe in the European project.
Others sit with Marxists and Communists. That's for them to explain.

All accepted and Colum could hold his own. Don’t think he is in Long’s league plus Alliance’s group whilst smaller is the power broker in the current parliament under Verhofstadt (that could change) and the Uk representation of that group is likely to increase with the remain vote going to Lib Dems. We need our voice inside that group

You "Don’t think he is in Long’s league".  Wha?  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support that.  Both articulate their party position in engaging ways, with Long for me maybe being a bit preachy.

In debate I would consider Long superior. Whilst ultimately that is subjective I would consider in the round, her calmness, articulacy and ability to react intelligently to live events.
In instinct I would judge her more politically savvy. She is managing an upward trajectory. Colin isn’t flying. At best he is falling with style. His failure to grasp Mike TV’s initiative, the Fianna Fáil fudgy thing, the failure to grasp the electoral importance of Hanna and the lack of clear positions on some key areas can all be cited.
In resilience I would judge Long to be superior. The shinners are gunning (in the metaphorical sense) for Colum and they don’t give him an easy ride. This is nothing compared to what Long personally and Alliance generally have to withstand from PUL intelligentsia

Anyway  I would be interested to hear what you might say to support your claim that Long is preachy?

As you say, there is an element of subjectiveness about comparing Long and Eastwood or most politiians.  I certainly don't consider her a better debater.  He has the abilities that you attribute to her.  I don't recall him being any less calm than her.  He's no less articulate and, for me, quicker with the witicisms.

Her party leader role is much easier than his.  He inherited a party in decline, then a political situation going into decline.  There is a bit of a mood of "one is as bad as the others" viz nationalists and unionists, hence Alliance get an easy ride for being agnostic about nationality.  I don't want the person who represents me to be agnostic.  I am a nationalist and I want someone to articulate that.  Not in a way that denigrates unionists, or seeks to raise tensions, or tells them their days are numbered.  For me Alliance is a bit of "whatever you are having yourself", which is an easy position to play.

On the preachy - here's an example.  Friday 11th May there was a debate on RU involving Eastwood, Long and Jim Allister.  At the offset there was a discussion between Eastwood and Allister about how much NI gets from the EU (Eastwood) and how much UK puts in (Allister).  They both emphasised their points.  First comment from Long was "here we go, Punch and Judy politics".  We know she means, "we are above this arguing from the great unwashed like you".  For then on, her and Allister had a ding dong.  I don't want my political reps to not challenge Allister, the opposite in fact.  That is what Eastwood did, but not in an ignorant or uncouth way, but stridently.  I was a bit pissed off at her sanctimonious, holier-than-thou attitude, which seems to be her MO.

I agree with a lot of this. Can’t comment on the RU debate that I didn’t hear. I completely disagree with 2 points though.

Alliance do not get an easy ride. The Twitter responses to Long can be dismissed as keyboard warrior stuff but they give an insight into the vitriol Alliance can and do face. That on occasion is manifested physically. It’s a very Belfast thing but Alliance’s presence has been very Belfast focused but is starting to change

Secondly I cannot agree that as a nationalist that you need to represented by a nationalist on roads, education, tax, economics, health etc etc etc. Alliance are not a case of “whatever you are heaving yourself” and more a case of “can you leave your baggage at the door and deal with the unrelated issue on its merits “. This is where every party should be.

I will transfer to Colum as a determined proEU candidate. I will give him more respect when his party takes on issues like standing up to the shinners on local councils in the way Alliance did to loyalist in Belfast and beyond

All political parties get the vitriol on social media, SDLP no less than Alliance.  Alliance do get an easier ride from media.

Sure, I don't need to be represented by a nationalist on roads, education etc, and they don't any more than Alliance.  I find all parties in my area to be much the same on these matters, not great mostly - Alliance no better or worse than the others, hence I transfer widely, esp in local government. 

The idea that my Irishness/nationalism is "baggage" to be left at the door.  I certainly don't see it as baggage, whatever that means, or as something to be dismissed.  Its important to me, and as far as I can see, to a lot of other people.  Its not everything that I think about in a political rep, nor is it nothing.  I want someone who can advocate for me on roads, health, education and irish nationalism.  There is nothing wrong with that, its not a case of either/or as you seem to suggest.

I am not sure where the idea that the SDLP don't stand up to SF on councils comes from but it certainly does not reflect reality.  I know the political scene in Derry, over a few decades.  Your version of the SDLP/SF relationship is definitely not borne out by the experiences here.

Well put.  Strongly considering voting for Naomi as I think she's got lots of ability but if the view of the Alliance party is that Nationalist feelings are 'baggage' to be 'left at the door' then I'd have to think again about that.  In saying that, I don't rate the SDLP at all, as their MO is simply to attack SF (trailer displays this nonsense perfectly on here - is he Daniel McCrossan??).  They are pro-EU though so for that reason would be worth a transfer.  Would consider SF but Anderson IMO is a woeful candidate.  I just won't be voting unionist.  So all in all, who knows.

Maybe the problem is you??... you say all the SDLP do is attack SF, yet in your post you've criticised SF, the SDLP and Alliance.

You see this is exactly where you go wrong.  I shouldn't have to point this out to you but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I've presented both the positive and negative case for both and attempted to present an objective view as I see it.

You (and your fellow one-trick ponies in the SDLP) only EVER present the negative regarding SF.  And when someone only ever does that, it means that objectivity has gone out the window and it's just dogma.

Edit.

I'm sure you'll not be distraught to learn this... but you didn't get a transfer from me in the end, primarily because of this nonsense and McCrossan's lying swipe at Naomi Long earlier in the week.  Claire Bailey was the beneficiary.


It's your vote. You use it as you see fit. BTW I wan't running so it was impossible to transfer to me.

I did.  Thanks.

And judging by Colum's dismal showing, there were plenty more like me.

Dismal? His vote was up on a lower turnout. But whatever suits your narrative!
 

Franko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2051
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #422 on: May 28, 2019, 03:44:18 PM »
Any port in a storm I suppose.

Owen Brannigan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #423 on: May 28, 2019, 04:21:42 PM »


trileacman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3503
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #424 on: May 29, 2019, 12:09:47 AM »
I’d love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

omaghjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3734
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #425 on: May 29, 2019, 12:36:16 AM »
5 already been eliminated so not necessarily No.2s

Better than that....it seems like there was around 106 from the DUP?

Seems like too many for errors.... those have gotta been filled it after the fact?

Eamonnca1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5919
  • Catching the world in my headlights of justice
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #426 on: May 29, 2019, 12:39:13 AM »
Jesus wept. Don't tell me Mick Wallace is going to be an MEP? I hope they have a dress code in Strasbourg.

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15518
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #427 on: May 29, 2019, 01:17:17 AM »
Our Mingeen has been there since 2014.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

marty34

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 627
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #428 on: May 29, 2019, 08:05:37 AM »
Over 21k spoilt votes in Midlands - North West from nearly 600k votes.

37k spoilt votes out of 720k votes in South.

Good that people are voting and no doubt, there are quite a few spoilt votes on purpose but I wonder what percentage of these are actually people not knowing how to 'vote' properly? i.e. maybe putting an X in one box or whatever.

Probably doesn't help when there's a ballot paper 2 foot long!!!

Hardy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14992
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #429 on: May 29, 2019, 09:08:51 AM »
I'd guess a large proportion of it consisted of people who went to vote in the local elections and the referendum and had no interest in/knowledge of the Euro candidates, so they just didn't bother filling in the Euro paper.

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23930
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #430 on: May 29, 2019, 12:11:05 PM »
Our Mingeen has been there since 2014.

Ming, Daly and Wallace
Plus a few Greens

Lookit

skeog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1050
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #431 on: May 29, 2019, 03:39:07 PM »
Top people tell it as it is good luck to them.

Owen Brannigan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1776
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #432 on: May 29, 2019, 04:22:39 PM »
I’d love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.

Most of the odd voting transfers are simply down to errors on the ballot paper. It was a long paper and some in rushing to make their decision could easily have written opposite Anderson instead of Allister as they were beside each other.

Nowhere near as bad the mess in the south with so many blank ballots and invalid ballots.

omaghjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3734
    • View Profile
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #433 on: May 29, 2019, 04:28:53 PM »
I’d love to meet the 73 people who voted Danny Kennedy number one and SF number 2.

Most of the odd voting transfers are simply down to errors on the ballot paper. It was a long paper and some in rushing to make their decision could easily have written opposite Anderson instead of Allister as they were beside each other.

Nowhere near as bad the mess in the south with so many blank ballots and invalid ballots.

Sorry for my cynicism/realism but would they not just have been left blank and got filled in afterwards?

On another point..... why isnt the ballot sheet fully read first time out, filled in a spreadsheet and let excel work out all the eventualities? Would be finished in half the time youd think?

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15518
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Elections North and South
« Reply #434 on: May 29, 2019, 05:01:34 PM »
Votes aren't counted in secret!
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....