Author Topic: Too many for one Team  (Read 3602 times)

From the Bunker

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 04:16:01 PM »
You see of the 22 the last day - 8 played a full game. That leaves 14 doing a version of a revolving door for 5 places on the pitch for the game.

And there is a panel of 27! God help us when all those turn up some night!

From the Bunker

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2019, 04:24:17 PM »
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?

How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.

There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.

manfromdelmonte

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2019, 04:47:12 PM »
play 13 for one half, another 13 for the other half
only solution

invite other clubs in your pitch to play games and play 9 a side or 11 a side and field two teams

AZOffaly

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 05:10:38 PM »
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.

That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club.  The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make.  I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.

Rudi

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2019, 07:12:33 PM »
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.

That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club.  The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make.  I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.

It's pathetic same coaches were probably chit in their own playing days.

johnnycool

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2019, 11:43:20 AM »
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?

How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.

There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.

Is this 13 aside hard and fast?
We can go 11 aside if needs be.

You also pointed out that there's a lot of the kids turn up willy nilly, very hard for a volunteer coach to manage that and get them gametime when you can't rely on them week in week out.


I know I'm going to receive a call from a parent very shortly about their kid who has trained the sum total of three times since January, hasn't turned up for a game since a friendly in February for an U14 team (this kid is in his final year at this level) and the manager has discussed with me about what to do and I've suggested he's given a subs jersey and earns the right to get game time by attending training more often.
The wee lad plays soccer and that's fine, so do some of the other ones, but they also make training and games.
What message would we be sending out to the other kids who turn up all the time and this lad saunters onto the pitch ahead of them just because he's older?

Fundamentals down, no bother, but I have explained to parents to play fair, get their kids to training, take your turn to travel to away games as its not fair if wee Jenny or Jonny rocks up to the home games and expects to play and never appears at away games and blitzes.
P.S. It's never the kids that are the problem, its always the parents when it comes to this.


johnnycool

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2019, 11:52:22 AM »
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.

That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club.  The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make.  I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.

I've saw this happen too and I've told the coaches that if another team does this and has subs to put out 13 (15 depending on the age) then you line out the 13/15 anyway and its up to them to send their weaker players on if they want.
Why should we deny some kids gametime because of the bolloxology of another team.

imtommygunn

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2019, 12:04:22 PM »
Handy when you're a big club and you've got 20 or 30 at each age group. You'll win you're share of Senior champs when you've the shear weight of numbers in your favour.
But I do agree all children no matter what ability should be given a game and picking the best out at such a young age sickens my hole. I see it so often.

That's where you have to be strong. We take beatings off teams who are playing their best players in their top team, and that leads to pressures from inside the club.  The county has a (very good) rule that every young lad who togs out for U12 championship must get at least a full half, and all substitutions take place at half time, barring injuries. However I know for a fact that some clubs (well regarded senior clubs) send out texts to their weaker players telling them to stay at home for certain games, so that they can minimise the number of substitutions they have to make.  I've also had some clubs refuse to play 13 a side, because they want to dilute their weaker players influence on the game. If I turn up with 13, and the other team has 13, I'm happy to play 13 a side with no subs, so everyone plays the full game. I have had opponents refuse to do this, preferring to stick with the 2 subs (11 a side) so that they can bring off two weaker lads and bring on two more. Very amusing at times actually.

The rule that every young lad must get a game is a great one. My club were not good with this stuff and due to it kids were leaving at u12. I would probably have stayed coaching a few more years but for the attitude of win at all costs. When it came to senior the ones who didn't get gametime had long gone and the glory ones were nowhere to be seen.

oakleaflad

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2019, 12:41:40 PM »
My daughter is part of a squad of 27! At her age group it is 13 a side. She is the 11 year old in under 12. Tonight 22 turned up that would have left 9 subs to be satisfied (if all 27 turn up there would be 14 subs). She played one quarter and a five minute spell later on. This is going to be the gig for the year. She is already not getting enough game time to bring her on. Thinking of pulling her from the club for the season and joining a Town team that would have a 'B' team. Any other solutions?

How about you offering to take a "B" team in the club you're already at.

There is not enough for a 'B' team. To have a B team with 13 a side you need a panel of about 34 or 36. I already have more than my share of sporting commitments as a coach and volunteer.
I'd completely disagree. 27 at U12 should be 2 teams. If county board or whoever are saying that all u12 games must be 13-a-side (which i'd find very hard to believe) then there is a serious issue with the development of underage players in your county.

From the Bunker

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2019, 02:47:58 PM »
Agree with everything written here. Especially AZ's comment on accommodating a smaller number Second team or a putting in two equal teams rather than one very strong and one very weak.  These things are not going to happen.

Fuzzman

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2019, 03:21:22 PM »
My eldest lad plays for Clontarf U12s and they have 3 teams A, B and C. He plays football for the A team and hurling for the B team but they tend to move lads around a bit from team to team up until this year.
A few weeks ago they played Baldoyle who only have the one team and it was the weirdest game they ever played as in they had 5 black girls on the team that were over 14 or 15 and a few other lads that were well over age but our lot still hammered them. It must be tough for a team like that to get a hammering every week but at least it gets them out exercising I suppose.

imtommygunn

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2019, 04:09:56 PM »
Played on a team where we got beat by 50+ points 2 weeks in a row in the league then ended up folding. A number of years later we won the county title at the same age group. Good test of character whether you stick at it after that. (We'd a few other games with slightly less of a beating but not much).

Farrandeelin

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2019, 06:01:38 PM »
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
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Throw ball

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2019, 07:07:20 PM »
We have this issue in our club. Between U12s and U11s we have 40 players. We have entered 3 teams in football, and 2 teams in hurling (as the hurling will be during summer holidays). Our teams play 13 a side, 13 a side and 11 a side.

All our U12s are on our 'top' team, which means we won't win any championship, but all our u12s get games at an appropriate level for them. We don't, as a rule, put U11s  onto the 'top' team, even through some of our U11s would be better than some u12s. The rationale for this is that we want lads to play with their friends, and we know your average U12 might be your best minor.

The exception to the rule we have, with the individual players in mind, is if a player is completely out of his depth at a certain level, we would talk to his parents and him about going back to a team below, so he can be at a level where he feels he can contribute and not be embarrassed.

Likewise if an U11 is too good for his level, and his development is stunted because he is not challenged, we would suggest moving him up.

Those decisions are never made with a view to winning a championship though. We want to win every game we play, but not at the expense of long term development and player retention.


This approach is not universally liked in the club, as some people feel we should play our strongest team at the top, regardless of age. I'm not sure there's a right answer here, but I'm happy we are trying to do the right thing by our players. I'll be at a meeting tonight where we will be challenged again regarding this approach.

Stand firm. Your approach is absolutely the best one.

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GaillimhIarthair

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Re: Too many for one Team
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2019, 07:59:18 PM »
Can I ask when should clubs start emphasising competitiveness? U14 onwards?
The kids will be competitive anyway, some more than others but yes, our club would not be selecting a strongest team until Feile kicks in at U14 level.  Up to that point, itís all about giving everyone equal game time regardless of ability.  As some other lads have alluded to here, it can be a tough pill to swallow at times when the local rivals are handing out the odd hiding with their strongest team at U10!!  The former approach will serve you best in the long run Farr.  Best of luck with whatever age group you are looking after.