Author Topic: Kerry Championship system  (Read 6560 times)

five points

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 10:28:41 AM »
The problem is not with Kerry. There's absolutely nothing to stop other counties having only 8 senior clubs if that's what suits their county. Personally I think winning intermediate and junior club All-Ireland's is well down the list of priorities and certainly not why Kerry's system is designed in this fashion. They use it to maximise the meaningful games each player gets.

Nail on head.

I'd abolish the intermediate and junior club All-Irelands. They are contrived and meaningless competitions that effectively reward strong clubs who get relegated. Cavan Gaels almost got relegated to intermediate in 2016 and the next year ended up getting to the Ulster Senior Club Final. Had they lost their relegation playoff, they would have probably won the All Ireland intermediate in 2017. What good would that have been to anyone?

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blanketattack

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 12:05:17 PM »
Cork reviewing their unwieldy system
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/cork-kick-starts-gaa-debate-on-those-hijacked-summers-913558.html

What? They want to introduce another grade, Senior A?!?
That'll mean Junior is their 5th tier.
Although Cork are hardly at much of a disadvantage of having a team from their 5th tier in the Junior Club championship competing against 3rd tier teams from other counties when you consider that Cork has about 90 Junior clubs.

One county that should look at their system is Tipperary. They've nearly 30 teams in their Senior hurling championship, which gives them little chance in the Intermediate and Junior club All-Ireland series, but even besides that it seems a ridiculously high number anyway.

oakleaflad

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 12:22:52 PM »
The problem is not with Kerry. There's absolutely nothing to stop other counties having only 8 senior clubs if that's what suits their county. Personally I think winning intermediate and junior club All-Ireland's is well down the list of priorities and certainly not why Kerry's system is designed in this fashion. They use it to maximise the meaningful games each player gets.

Nail on head.

I'd abolish the intermediate and junior club All-Irelands. They are contrived and meaningless competitions that effectively reward strong clubs who get relegated. Cavan Gaels almost got relegated to intermediate in 2016 and the next year ended up getting to the Ulster Senior Club Final. Had they lost their relegation playoff, they would have probably won the All Ireland intermediate in 2017. What good would that have been to anyone?
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.

five points

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 12:27:55 PM »
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.
That's beside the point. Of course those who have played in any competition will support its retention. They are still contrived and artificial competitions that reward teams for getting relegated in their own counties.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:30:40 PM by five points »

oakleaflad

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2019, 12:39:51 PM »
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.
That's beside the point. Of course those who have played in any competition will support its retention. They are still contrived and artificial competitions that reward teams for getting relegated in their own counties.
Why is it beside the point? In fact, I think it is 'the' point. Giving smaller communities or teams with lesser ability the chance to take on similar teams from across the country. Not every relegated team always wins the next year either.

five points

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2019, 12:51:44 PM »
Giving smaller communities or teams with lesser ability the chance to take on similar teams from across the country.

Except they don't. See above.

Not every relegated team always wins the next year either.

Quite, but most of those who do win are previously relegated teams. There are some farcical examples and only a few kicks of a ball stopped Cavan Gaels from making a total arse of it altogether, although it wouldn't have been their fault.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 01:00:56 PM by five points »

oakleaflad

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2019, 01:24:31 PM »
Giving smaller communities or teams with lesser ability the chance to take on similar teams from across the country.

Except they don't. See above.


Except they do. Every year. For example, of the last 10 winners of Derry's Intermediate or Junior Championship I don't think there's been one 'big' club or one of overly superior ability that I can think of.


Not every relegated team always wins the next year either.

Quite, but most of those who do win are previously relegated teams. There are some farcical examples and only a few kicks of a ball stopped Cavan Gaels from making a total arse of it altogether, although it wouldn't have been their fault.
So you scrap an entire championship because Cavan Gaels nearly got relegated one year?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 01:26:38 PM by oakleaflad »

five points

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2019, 01:35:53 PM »
Except they do. Every year. For example, of the last 10 winners of Derry's Intermediate or Junior Championship I don't think there's been one 'big' club or one of overly superior ability that I can think of.

How many of them contested an All Ireland Intermediate or Junior Championship final?

oakleaflad

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2019, 02:38:46 PM »
Except they do. Every year. For example, of the last 10 winners of Derry's Intermediate or Junior Championship I don't think there's been one 'big' club or one of overly superior ability that I can think of.

How many of them contested an All Ireland Intermediate or Junior Championship final?
That wasn't my point. My point was 'Giving smaller communities or teams with lesser ability the chance to take on similar teams from across the country.'

I actually would agree with those who think Kerry clubs have an unfair advantage. I don't think the competition should be scrapped because of this though.

Kickham csc

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2019, 03:01:37 PM »
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.
That's beside the point. Of course those who have played in any competition will support its retention. They are still contrived and artificial competitions that reward teams for getting relegated in their own counties.
Should also get rid of all the B, C, D, level college competitions.

Only All Irelands for senior clubs, colleges and counties

rosnarun

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2019, 03:08:23 PM »
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.
That's beside the point. Of course those who have played in any competition will support its retention. They are still contrived and artificial competitions that reward teams for getting relegated in their own counties.
Should also get rid of all the B, C, D, level college competitions.

Only All Irelands for senior clubs, colleges and counties
good way to kill a sport that had no transfer system
so if your  from a junior club  what do you do with no proper competition to play in .
a c title for a small club would be as well celebrated than An a title for a school club who have buckets of them
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blanketattack

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2019, 03:12:47 PM »
Except they do. Every year. For example, of the last 10 winners of Derry's Intermediate or Junior Championship I don't think there's been one 'big' club or one of overly superior ability that I can think of.

How many of them contested an All Ireland Intermediate or Junior Championship final?
That wasn't my point. My point was 'Giving smaller communities or teams with lesser ability the chance to take on similar teams from across the country.'

I actually would agree with those who think Kerry clubs have an unfair advantage. I don't think the competition should be scrapped because of this though.



Maybe they should do in a few counties what happens with Kerry hurling clubs (and Kilkenny football clubs?), with the senior winners going into the Intermediate Provincial club c'ship and the intermediate winners going into the junior.
But you wouldn't want to be too hasty, as we've seen clubs from Carlow, Wicklow and Longford win Leinster and those would be counties you'd normally consider weak and needing an advantage.

HiMucker

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2019, 03:43:47 PM »
Im a bit confused with this argument. Why does it matter that weaker clubs don't stand a chance at intermediate or junior level? There is plenty of senior clubs up and down the country that don't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning their county championship. Should their be another tier created for them to give them a chance of winning, as they would obviously be too strong for intermediate?

galwayman

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Re: Kerry Championship system
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2019, 04:07:53 PM »
The problem is not with Kerry. There's absolutely nothing to stop other counties having only 8 senior clubs if that's what suits their county. Personally I think winning intermediate and junior club All-Ireland's is well down the list of priorities and certainly not why Kerry's system is designed in this fashion. They use it to maximise the meaningful games each player gets.

Nail on head.

I'd abolish the intermediate and junior club All-Irelands. They are contrived and meaningless competitions that effectively reward strong clubs who get relegated. Cavan Gaels almost got relegated to intermediate in 2016 and the next year ended up getting to the Ulster Senior Club Final. Had they lost their relegation playoff, they would have probably won the All Ireland intermediate in 2017. What good would that have been to anyone?
Completely disagree. Ask anyone who has played in it.
Would completely agree with this.
I played in a Connacht junior club final several years back and the experience was just priceless.
Mine is a small club that ain’t going to be competing for senior championships any time soon.