Author Topic: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup  (Read 39013 times)

burdizzo

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #255 on: June 17, 2019, 09:23:07 PM »

No problem with some system that allows a team two years minimum (but don't see how it would work without the competition swelling to huge numbers).


Remember the Laois SHC had that rule, in the mid-00s, that a team couldn't be relegated after one year in senior. Clonad played Ballyfin in a relegation play-off, and beat them, but because Ballyfin were only one year up at that stage they couldn't be relegated! So, the senior championship was expanded to 13 teams the next year!



Mossy Bruce

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #256 on: June 17, 2019, 09:48:57 PM »
...
Anyways, while I still have a problem with Eddie Brennan sitting on the Sunday Game panel, ...
I was somewhat disappointed to see Eddie there last night, but such is life. Hard to see what is gained from it from a Laois pov, but thats not why he's there.
...

Is there a precedence for a active manager to also being a paid commentator on RTÉ?

It just doesn't seem quite appropriate but what do I know.
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

burdizzo

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #257 on: June 17, 2019, 09:58:23 PM »
Brendan Cummins does it, and he a Kerry selector.

Keyser Söze

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #258 on: June 17, 2019, 11:45:20 PM »
First, I think a system of having a match to determine who will be relegated and who will be promoted should be in place, right now, for Carlow (and I am no fan of Carlow). I’d love to see Laois or Westmeath battle Carlow to see who’s truly Leinster Championship material. And I would hardly call this system a “safety net.” The downward-heading Leinster team has to prove they are still Championship material.

However, in reading the postings in favor of the current system (or slight variations of) and looking at this from a different perspective, I now see that each year it is guaranteed that a team with battle experience in Leinster will be dropping down to the Joe McDonagh Cup and bringing that strength with them. All the second-tier teams will get exposure to this first-tier intensity and it can only make those teams stronger.

(Changed my mind.)
 :)
[/quote]

No offence, but as somebody pointed out above, we had this system in the league a couple of years ago.
In 2016 Laois lost every game in Division 1B, by an average of over 10 points, finsihing 6th.
They then played Kerry, who finished 5th and had already beaten them by 7 points, in a relegation playoff.
Laois lost the relegation play off by 11 points.
Surely at this stage they were relegated? Not a chance!

Westmeath, meanwhile were ripping it up in Division 2A, winning their first 4 games. They lost to Carlow in a dead rubber of a game in the 5th round, and lost by 2 points. Both teams met again 6 days later and Westmeath reversed the result and the margin, winning by 2 points.
Surely at this stage they were promoted? Not a chance!

Instead Westmeath would have to beat Laois in a playoff to secure promotion. Laois having failed to get a single win or draw (Played 6, Lost 6, Scoring Difference -64) beat Westmeath by 7 points, and won the right to play in Division 1B again the following year.
Westmeath beat everyone in Division 2A, winning 5 of the 6 games they played and got absolutely no reward.

I would call this the dictionary definition of a safety net!
Morally wrong!

There is one thing wrong the current Leinster/Munster set up and I mentioned it a few days ago. Carlow should be playing off with Waterford to see who gets relegated. If Carlow happened to win, Waterford play Joe McDonagh next year and Galway move to Munster. Laois or Westmeath join Carlow in Leinster.

For the integrity of our competitions every team should start out with the same chance of winning, and same chance of relegation/promotion.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

Keyser Söze

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #259 on: June 17, 2019, 11:49:40 PM »
Brendan Cummins does it, and he a Kerry selector.

Not quite the same. Brennan accepted the role of Laois manager, and you can be sure he is being remunerated appropriately for it. He is doing the job well. He isn't doing us "a favour" by managing us.
If I were on the selection committee, rightly or wrongly, it would have been a prerequisite of him being offered the job.

Do you think if he went for the Kilkenny job and suggested keeping on the role on TV he would get within an asses roar?
It doesn't sit well with me. I said so very early in the year.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

Keyser Söze

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #260 on: June 18, 2019, 12:07:26 AM »

No problem with some system that allows a team two years minimum (but don't see how it would work without the competition swelling to huge numbers).


Remember the Laois SHC had that rule, in the mid-00s, that a team couldn't be relegated after one year in senior. Clonad played Ballyfin in a relegation play-off, and beat them, but because Ballyfin were only one year up at that stage they couldn't be relegated! So, the senior championship was expanded to 13 teams the next year!

Ye i think it was 2007 that happened, and for 2008 when we operated the 4 groups of 3 format we had to have one group of 4.
That format (with 12 teams) was very enjoyable tbh. 3 teams in a group and 2 come out of it. There were some very competitive groups. I remember The Harps going in as one the pre championship favourites one year and failing to come out of a group that also contained Ballinakill and Castletown.
Do we have 12 teams now to make it competitive? You'd probably end up with one interesting group.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

smcder

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #261 on: June 18, 2019, 01:02:57 AM »
Don't think we have 12 teams for that. Can remember Colt getting a few trimmings one year. There were others as well a nice bit below the standard. Abbyleix were for a few years I think as well.  Think 8 teams makes it competitive.

Mossy Bruce

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #262 on: June 18, 2019, 09:33:31 PM »
Everyone probably already knows this but let's post it:

Weekend 6/7 July
All-Ireland preliminary quarter-finals
Dublin v Winners of Westmeath v Laois
Cork v Losers of Westmeath v Laois

Weekend 13/14 July
All-Ireland SHC quarter-finals
Leinster beaten finalist v Cork/Joe McDonagh Cup runner-up
Munster beaten finalist  v Dublin/Joe McDonagh Cup winner
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

clonadmad

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #263 on: June 18, 2019, 11:48:33 PM »
Everyone probably already knows this but let's post it:

Weekend 6/7 July
All-Ireland preliminary quarter-finals
Dublin v Winners of Westmeath v Laois
Cork v Losers of Westmeath v Laois

Weekend 13/14 July
All-Ireland SHC quarter-finals
Leinster beaten finalist v Cork/Joe McDonagh Cup runner-up
Munster beaten finalist  v Dublin/Joe McDonagh Cup winner

Win it and play Dublin who we shouldn’t fear,if you got to a quarter final you’d fear for our lads,but still would be great to get there

G@@

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #264 on: June 19, 2019, 01:21:11 AM »
I actually think the hurling modal is perfect for Football also, the only issue is the provincials which are basically redundant, they should be scrapped in place of a fairer seeded system.

I generally don't talk nasty but I'd ware a hurl off your hole for daring to even think of scrapping them, let alone saying it.
"I can't get over you - 'till you come out from under him" - Pat Shortt - Class!

Don Draper

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #265 on: June 19, 2019, 08:19:35 AM »
There's a place for the Provincials, do away with the NHL, keep the provincials, and then go on with a proper structured AIHC.

Joeythelips

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #266 on: June 19, 2019, 02:09:43 PM »
They still have a place just about in football, but its still an unfair system, a seeded system would make much more sense. We could have provincials instead of the league but there would still be an imbalance there. I get that at least there is something tangible for teams to win with current provincial system as we seen with Roscommons win so there is value from that perspective but the imbalance remains. A system that is seeded based on match performances would be fairer and over time better in my opinion. Bring in bonus points so even if teams are getting well beaten they still have something to play for which will help their seedings.

If we look at the Joe McDonagh Cup I think it has a good format, teams play sides at their level or seeding for a trophy. The finalists are into the AI series proper for that season and the winners get promoted. Currently in football Dublin could be drawn against Wicklow in the Leinster Championship, in the hurling system this could not happen unless Wicklow won their grade and advanced up the ladder. The only thing holding hurling back from being totally fair is the Munster Championship but again historically its one of hurlings biggest draws but this is only based on the fact that its usually the most competitive.

I actually think the hurling modal is perfect for Football also, the only issue is the provincials which are basically redundant, they should be scrapped in place of a fairer seeded system.

I generally don't talk nasty but I'd ware a hurl off your hole for daring to even think of scrapping them, let alone saying it.

Mossy Bruce

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #267 on: June 19, 2019, 09:31:44 PM »
Time code 1:26 to 1:36 -- That's what I was wanting to hear.  ;D

https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/joe-quaid-post-laois
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

Don Draper

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #268 on: June 20, 2019, 08:56:34 AM »
Time code 1:26 to 1:36 -- That's what I was wanting to hear.  ;D

https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/joe-quaid-post-laois
Joe is an auld rogue, don't pay him any heed.

redsetanta

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Re: 2019 Joe McDonagh Cup
« Reply #269 on: June 21, 2019, 10:09:34 AM »
Great to hear there are plenty of tickets being bought from the county offices. It will be great to see a good hurling crowd in Croke PArk for the firt time in a long time. Shite though if you're not living in Laois as you cannot buy over the phone. Anyhow someone has done me a favour and got me tickets. The gaa website is a bit of a lottery and you could end up among a heap of cats laughing at our 'minor' match.
Looking forward to an eventful day and hopefully a win and a trophy at the end of it.
The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. VinceLombardi