Author Topic: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019  (Read 25377 times)

marty34

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #210 on: November 19, 2019, 09:27:01 AM »
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.

If lads aren’t “flying” by u14,he won’t be a good senior hurler!!!!

Laughable comment

I hope to god your not involved in juvenile coaching

And FYI

Here’s 5 hurlers that I saw when they were juveniles who weren’t rated

I think they turned out ok

James McGarry
Derek Lyng
Lar Corbett
Seanie McMahon
Gearoid McInerney

Players that weren't rated is very very different from players that weren't good enough. I'll bet you every one of the players above had all the skills of the game at 15 or 16 years of age. If you look at each of them in fact you will find that they were successful underage hurlers. Yes, I have been heavily involved in underage hurling coaching and still am occasionally. This is why I am so passionate about the fact that if a lad doesn't have all the skills at U14 then the only real development they do afterwards in physical and they add cuteness. If a chap can't strike a ball on the run from both sides at 14 or rise a ball at speed in a ruck then they won't in later life. Their skills have become embedded by then and where they might get a bit sharper they don't fundamentally improve. Pat Critchley said the same himself a few years ago managing Laois minor teams. All the coaching in the world from 16-18 won't fix what wasn't right earlier. Paudie Butler, who oversaw Tipp's underage system for years said the same when he came to Laois.


“They were successful underage hurlers”

Actually they weren’t because none of them got with an asses roar of county minor panels when they were eligible.

Lads develop at different stages and need to be keep within the respective club systems and not discarded at 14

You’d swear we were so flush with hurlers in Laois that we could do this when the opposite is the case.

The reality here is that in juvenile coaching and development isn’t at the level that it’s at in the top 8 counties.

Witness our county champions killing the ball on the Hurley last Sunday when it should be in the hand every time

All young lads want is regular hurling games - regardless of opposition and where it's played. Give them a match every week.  That's where the learning comes from.

Players develop at different ages - most important thing to give them games.  More chance of them staying at it if they are getting regular games.

blueandwhite1

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #211 on: November 19, 2019, 09:38:53 AM »
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

Midlands league is a waste of time,there’s been no buy in

Also our clubs Playing club teams who are from counties below us in the hurling firmament?

We need to be thinking about making the jump to top 6/8 counties at this stage

Abbeyleix playing Thurles or The Harps against Comer in games that matter would improve all our club hurlers over time.

We are fighting against a culture of defeat and apathy in laois as much as anything else

Our U12 hurlers hurling in Kilkenny was a good idea. Certainly our club reaped the benefits from it. It is physically a much different game. The tackling is harder. It's a pity that it wasn't continued.

I have seen laois u12 and u14 clubs playing challenge games against Tipp and kk opposition and being like rabbits in the headlights at the bite and intensity of these teams and how hard they hit (fairly in most cases,i might add)

But do you know what

By the time they have played a second or third game against teams from these counties in quick succession,they get conditioned and adapt

If you want to be the best,you test yourself against the best

It doesn't hurt to get these exposures from time to time to measure where a team are. I still don't believe it is practical or even desirable long term for some Laois clubs to be playing their hurling in other counties. For a start, what about the rest? Addressing our problems can't come down to outsourcing to a rival county. What if it works - are the host county likely to want to continue to help?

clonadmad

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #212 on: November 19, 2019, 10:40:03 AM »
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

Midlands league is a waste of time,there’s been no buy in

Also our clubs Playing club teams who are from counties below us in the hurling firmament?

We need to be thinking about making the jump to top 6/8 counties at this stage

Abbeyleix playing Thurles or The Harps against Comer in games that matter would improve all our club hurlers over time.

We are fighting against a culture of defeat and apathy in laois as much as anything else

Our U12 hurlers hurling in Kilkenny was a good idea. Certainly our club reaped the benefits from it. It is physically a much different game. The tackling is harder. It's a pity that it wasn't continued.

I have seen laois u12 and u14 clubs playing challenge games against Tipp and kk opposition and being like rabbits in the headlights at the bite and intensity of these teams and how hard they hit (fairly in most cases,i might add)

But do you know what

By the time they have played a second or third game against teams from these counties in quick succession,they get conditioned and adapt

If you want to be the best,you test yourself against the best

It doesn't hurt to get these exposures from time to time to measure where a team are. I still don't believe it is practical or even desirable long term for some Laois clubs to be playing their hurling in other counties. For a start, what about the rest? Addressing our problems can't come down to outsourcing to a rival county. What if it works - are the host county likely to want to continue to help?

They wouldnt be playing all their hurling outside the county,just the league

Clubs wouldnt be playing their leagues outside the county every year,they could do it every second year.

Bottom Line

A radical rethink of where we want Laois hurling to go is needed,the same old same old hasnt worked in the past 125 years,I wont work for the next 125.

some outside the box thinking is required

Neutralobserver

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #213 on: November 23, 2019, 08:44:53 AM »
Do the harps take part in this kk league?  If sois it doing them any good as they cant seem to make the next step up at senior or is it just a bit soon for them players?

Keyser Söze

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #214 on: November 27, 2019, 03:16:33 PM »
Personally, I don't think looking to KK or Tipp leagues is the answer to our problems. Coaching standards in the clubs, followed by deciding on a Development Squad model that best fits our situation are the two key factors.
There is a need to facilitate dual players at least as far as U16 in county squads. It shouldn't be left to the whim of county managers from code to code or year to year.

We need strong underage teams, competing in the A where possible.
But we also need a decent number of teams competing. Where clubs are viable entities underage (in general) they should be discouraged from bed hopping at selected grades to make themselves stronger. Drop back to the B for that year/grade. If the club is that small that it finds itself in this position, the stronger players will most likely be playing up a grade anyways and get exposure that way.
We can't keep shrinking under the guise of "improving the standards in the county". Do we want to end up like Carlow? Or camogie in Laois?

The Development Squads issue is of huge importance. We need to establish what our culture, playing style and operational values are. At least for each code if not as a county. Is there anybody (or group of people) tackling this issue. Other counties have excellent people in a role like this. Overseeing those at each grade level. Have we?
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clonadmad

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #215 on: November 27, 2019, 04:10:35 PM »
Personally, I don't think looking to KK or Tipp leagues is the answer to our problems. Coaching standards in the clubs, followed by deciding on a Development Squad model that best fits our situation are the two key factors.
There is a need to facilitate dual players at least as far as U16 in county squads. It shouldn't be left to the whim of county managers from code to code or year to year.

We need strong underage teams, competing in the A where possible.
But we also need a decent number of teams competing. Where clubs are viable entities underage (in general) they should be discouraged from bed hopping at selected grades to make themselves stronger. Drop back to the B for that year/grade. If the club is that small that it finds itself in this position, the stronger players will most likely be playing up a grade anyways and get exposure that way.
We can't keep shrinking under the guise of "improving the standards in the county". Do we want to end up like Carlow? Or camogie in Laois?

The Development Squads issue is of huge importance. We need to establish what our culture, playing style and operational values are. At least for each code if not as a county. Is there anybody (or group of people) tackling this issue. Other counties have excellent people in a role like this. Overseeing those at each grade level. Have we?

I wasn’t suggesting that going to Tipp or Kk would be the magic bullet to cure all our illsbut it would be an eye opener as to where we need to be in terms of developing our younger players.

We need to have everyone hurling that we can in every club and bring along and not lose anyone

Short term amalgamations need to be stopped

A juvenile division should have 15 players,13 if both teams agreeable and those numbers there

B division similar rules

C division have rule for 13 players and 11 min if both teams agreeable and teams are caught for numbers


The C division and it doesn’t have to be called the C division (call the division’s after 3  of our notable players) is there to facilitate 2nd teams from the bigger clubs and first teams from the smaller clubs

In Tipp it goes as low as an E division

Ballyhale hurl juvenile in C in kk,which 11/13 a side due to their numbers

It hasn’t done them any harm

We need to have everyone regardless of their current ability playing meaningful games all the time.

Keyser Söze

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #216 on: November 27, 2019, 11:26:09 PM »
I agree with a lot of that.
For example (and I don't want to be talking about them all the time) but was it better that Clough Ballacolla/Mountrath joined and won a Minor A last year, or would it have been better that both those clubs cobbled together 15 for the A or worse case scenario put out 13 a side teams in the B? I think this is a key question, and this was a real test case.
I don't think their coming together identified any new talent or brought anyone on leaps in bounds. A huge number of their starting 15 were already in with Development Squads. It's nothing against the two clubs involved, it's the principle of what happened, and an examination of what our values are as clubs, and as a county. I know people have posted here before that they were very short in numbers etc. But there are obvious solutions- your under 15s/16s and worse case, drop back to 13 a side B. Hell, there is always the option of trawling the parish, and finding a few fellas to make up 13/15. I know of a club who have gained access (through a cooperative principal) to old primary school roll books to check if they were missing out on anyone.
It's highly unlikely that any of these coerced fellas will go on to be stars, but if it maintains (or increases) the number of competitive juvenile teams in the county they are fulfilling a vital role.

Again, what is the stated ethos of our underage development squads? Is there a definite structure to how they are run? Or is it up to me if I get the job as U15 Hurling Manager to decide how I run my squad. Thus, my attitude and organisation has a lasting effect on the minor squad in two years time, whether positive or negative. Do I pick a small panel and decide they are the 2022 minor team? Some foresight!
I'm not suggesting people have no freedom as management teams. But if we are asking people who are applying for these jobs (or being proposed for them) to lay out their plan we have it backwards.
A steering group should be in situ who lay out how our various development squads should operate. Panel sizes, what tournaments we enter and how many teams. When (if at all) panels are cut.
If a steering group comprising people of the calibre of Cheddar, Pat, Jackman etc decide on a plan and best course of action, aspiring management teams should be bound to these in some way.
Obviously the above would be ideal candidates for such a group, but this group should exist as a key strategic element of our future proofing, there are plenty of experienced and respected people who could sit on it.
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Mossy Bruce

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #217 on: November 28, 2019, 01:59:40 AM »
I'm trying to decide whether or not to get up at 5:30 am this Sunday morning, here, to watch the Leinster Club Senior Hurling Final. Will it be a crackin' match or will it be a score of doe-eyed lads running head-long into a buzz saw?
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

LOVEGAA

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #218 on: November 28, 2019, 12:36:51 PM »
I'm trying to decide whether or not to get up at 5:30 am this Sunday morning, here, to watch the Leinster Club Senior Hurling Final. Will it be a crackin' match or will it be a score of doe-eyed lads running head-long into a buzz saw?


Mossy it will be worth getting up at that time just to see TJ Reid in action

Mossy Bruce

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #219 on: November 28, 2019, 04:34:56 PM »
I'm trying to decide whether or not to get up at 5:30 am this Sunday morning, here, to watch the Leinster Club Senior Hurling Final. Will it be a crackin' match or will it be a score of doe-eyed lads running head-long into a buzz saw?


Mossy it will be worth getting up at that time just to see TJ Reid in action
I didn’t think about that. You’re right!
LAOIS! LAOIS! LAOIS!

South Laois man

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Re: Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019
« Reply #220 on: November 28, 2019, 05:47:10 PM »
The hurling on Sunday is not been shown live. It's been shown deferred.