Author Topic: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019  (Read 42048 times)

BallyroanAbu

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2019, 10:39:28 PM »
I thought port were the team to beat Portlaoise this year but they didn’t impress me at all on Saturday. Wide open at the back and McMahon took his man to the cleaners. Port weren’t interested when the hitting began but looked very good going forward at pace. Fair play to them for digging out the dray though. Any thoughts on the phantom goal??? Young Doyle actually hit the net and the ball was ahead of him was my view of it

Have seen video of "goal" hard to say and that's with a video.  So Ref's decision final and we move on, hopefully BallyroanAbbey back this up with a similar performance on Wednesday. 

« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 10:43:11 PM by BallyroanAbu »

merman

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2019, 12:08:07 AM »
Interesting debate here. I would be all for introducing-divisional-teams-into-the-club-championships....

https://www.laoistoday.ie/2019/08/12/talking-point-should-laois-gaa-look-at-introducing-divisional-teams-into-the-club-championships/

I've yet to see a valid reason for Divisional Teams.
I think they give an easy out to clubs.

Look at what Courtwood have done. Yes, they play as an amalgamated team at juvenile but they have produced players consistently capable of playing at 'A' grade and now look at home at senior level. Yes, it'll be tough making that next step up to being real bona fide contenders but that'll be a better story than a ragtag amalgamation of clubs and players looking for a quick fix.

It happened with Castletown in the 90s. Clough/Ballacolla to a lesser extent in the 00s. Clubs that went from junior/intermediate to senior after huge work at underage level. Both were consistent at underage level for a decade and eventually these lads filtered through.

The issue with competitiveness isn't a lack of Divisional Teams. It's clubs not making a mature and reasoned decision. Either they find a way to bring through a greater number of players capable of playing at underage 'A' level or they seek to create parish amalgamations like Rathdowney and Errill or Borris and Kilcotton. Both made difficult but brave decisions that have certainly benefited the players in both clubs.

The main support for the idea I've seen on social media extends to doing this to 'Stop Portlaoise' or 'Sure what's the harm in trying it?'.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:34:02 AM by merman »

High Fielder

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2019, 08:57:51 AM »
In theory, you're spot on Merman. Then there's the flip side of the coin. Lads with ability in smaller clubs or clubs not going too well tend to blend in to their surroundings. Do we discard them altogether?

The key here could be to play a couple of rounds of the Senior Championship in May, and allow interested players to play Senior with clubs at that point. Then in August, they can still kick with the senior club and play with their own club in the lower grades. It would need dedication, bit surely these are the type of players we're looking for anyway? There's no need for a Divisional side, but it's certainly more appealing than a 16 team Senior and 8 team Intermediate. That makes no sense at all, particularly with some Senior teams only getting to play 2 Championship matches. How can that ever lead to personal improvement in a county where the League is largely irrelevant

Zooming around

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2019, 02:12:42 PM »
In theory, you're spot on Merman. Then there's the flip side of the coin. Lads with ability in smaller clubs or clubs not going too well tend to blend in to their surroundings. Do we discard them altogether?

The key here could be to play a couple of rounds of the Senior Championship in May, and allow interested players to play Senior with clubs at that point. Then in August, they can still kick with the senior club and play with their own club in the lower grades. It would need dedication, bit surely these are the type of players we're looking for anyway? There's no need for a Divisional side, but it's certainly more appealing than a 16 team Senior and 8 team Intermediate. That makes no sense at all, particularly with some Senior teams only getting to play 2 Championship matches. How can that ever lead to personal improvement in a county where the League is largely irrelevant

Is it not a minimum of three games in the Senior no matter what

SCFC

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2019, 02:34:30 PM »
In theory, you're spot on Merman. Then there's the flip side of the coin. Lads with ability in smaller clubs or clubs not going too well tend to blend in to their surroundings. Do we discard them altogether?

The key here could be to play a couple of rounds of the Senior Championship in May, and allow interested players to play Senior with clubs at that point. Then in August, they can still kick with the senior club and play with their own club in the lower grades. It would need dedication, bit surely these are the type of players we're looking for anyway? There's no need for a Divisional side, but it's certainly more appealing than a 16 team Senior and 8 team Intermediate. That makes no sense at all, particularly with some Senior teams only getting to play 2 Championship matches. How can that ever lead to personal improvement in a county where the League is largely irrelevant

Is it not a minimum of three games in the Senior no matter what
Correct.

SCFC

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2019, 03:08:25 PM »
Disappointed with the quality of the games I saw this weekend.

I suppose the weather on Saturday affected the games. Ballyfin played some nice football in the first game and Crettyard must be hot favourites to go down now. They look a very disjointed outfit.

In the second game, Portlaoise were well below par and I think it shows that they might be there to be got at by a well organised team with a little bit more quality than Courtwood. To be fair to them, Courtwood gave it a really good go and can only improve from the game.

The third game was ruined by the weather. I think the smallish, light Port team would go better on a dry, fine day. Fancy them to win the replay. Ballyroan Abbey got a few breaks on the night.  

I missed the early games Sunday. Saw half of the Emo Stradbally game. Emo far better team. Stradbally had too many passengers but I think may be able to stay up. Last game was very drab. Graigue kinda left it behind them. I think they led 9-5 and didn’t score again until injury time (or so it seemed). O’Dempseys would need to play a lot better to get to another county final.

Heard nothing about Josephs and The Heath. The Heath are really well off the level of senior football. If you were reducing the senior teams by three or four to bring in area teams, they would be certain to drop I’d imagine.


High Fielder

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2019, 03:09:35 PM »
Beg your pardon. 3 games. That shouldn't detract from the main point. If we're looking to offer a better standard of football to lads who might be interested in that, we could go Divisional sides or giving lads access to Senior clubs. Maybe someone more knowledgable could explain the rules that govern this.

Alternatively, we could keep going as we are by offering a yearly lifeline to two or three very weak Senior clubs. Sugrue's area competition complemented the current system really well and there's no doubt one or two lads emerged. But if he's gone and with him the area competition, then we have to address ways of getting good players access to Senior football.

High Fielder

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2019, 03:22:47 PM »
Disappointed with the quality of the games I saw this weekend.

I suppose the weather on Saturday affected the games. Ballyfin played some nice football in the first game and Crettyard must be hot favourites to go down now. They look a very disjointed outfit.

In the second game, Portlaoise were well below par and I think it shows that they might be there to be got at by a well organised team with a little bit more quality than Courtwood. To be fair to them, Courtwood gave it a really good go and can only improve from the game.

The third game was ruined by the weather. I think the smallish, light Port team would go better on a dry, fine day. Fancy them to win the replay. Ballyroan Abbey got a few breaks on the night. 

I missed the early games Sunday. Saw half of the Emo Stradbally game. Emo far better team. Stradbally had too many passengers but I think may be able to stay up. Last game was very drab. Graigue kinda left it behind them. I think they led 9-5 and didn’t score again until injury time (or so it seemed). O’Dempseys would need to play a lot better to get to another county final.

Heard nothing about Josephs and The Heath. The Heath are really well off the level of senior football. If you were reducing the senior teams by three or four to bring in area teams, they would be certain to drop I’d imagine.

Conditions were to blame for the even poorer than usual fare on Saturday evening. We have to accept that Portlaoise don't need to be at full tilt or anywhere near it in Laois. I don't think Courtwood would be worried about too many teams after Portlaoise and nor should they be. The standard has been poor for a number of years now and it's clear that a fresh approach is needed

merman

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2019, 03:35:09 PM »
I think it's only an issue at underage level.

I presume it's fair to see Rob Tyrrell as a good example.

He came through as a fine footballer from a club where the focus is conservatively 75% hurling. As things stand now, if he was called into a Laois panel then he would be getting County training from say November-June. He'd go back and kick a bit of junior, hurl a few games and then have a couple of months to do some recovery and S&C before going back in with Laois.
Is that really an issue??

I accept, however, that there are players aged 13 right now who are potential senior footballers in 8 years. They could easily fall through the cracks.
The challenge for them is that they may be playing 'B' grade on their own or with some ramshackle amalgamation. He's likely training twice a week with 11 year olds making up the numbers and he never needs to learn the fundamental skills that are a prerequisite at the highest level. Compared that with the same footballer in Portlaoise or St Paul's and that's the issue. And I use St Paul's deliberately. Excuse me if I'm wrong on this but it seems a really good relationship. It's not an Emo or Courtwood Gaels team, the clubs involved know what they're getting out of it and they actively put work into it. The players are benefitting from the structure and the exposure to good training and 'A' competition.
In years to come, there may be a conversation about the arrangement extending to adult level but again, that's a really separate one.

The first solution to this needs to come primarily from the clubs. Look at their primary school(s), can they get 10 boys in first class still playing in 1st Year. If they do this consistently across a decade and have quality coaching, a bit of luck and things go for them, they'll improve. If they can't get those numbers through, they need to think of a way around it.

The other solution needs to come from the County. Development Panels need to look beyond the Athletic and dominant 'Big Lads' and cast a net that includes player who may be late bloomers. The balance is key.

I'm not saying for a second that this will cure the ills within our Senior Football or Hurling Championships. They're separate issues as far as I'm concerned. I do think 16 senior football clubs is too many...I actually think 8 hurling is too few. But I am adamant that Divisional Teams entering the senior championships are not the panacea that some claim.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:04:58 PM by merman »

SCFC

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2019, 04:38:22 PM »
I think it's only an issue at underage level.

I presume it's fair to see Rob Tyrrell as a good example.

He came through as a fine footballer from a club where the focus is conservatively 75% hurling. As things stand now, if he was called into a Laois panel then he would be getting County training from say November-June. He'd go back and kick a bit of junior, hurl a few games and then have a couple of months to do some recovery and S&C before going back in with Laois.
Is that really an issue??

I accept, however, that there are players aged 13 right now who are potential senior footballers in 8 years. They could easily fall through the cracks.
The challenge for them is that they may be playing 'B' grade on their own or with some ramshackle amalgamation. He's likely training twice a week with 11 year olds making up the numbers and he never needs to learn the fundamental skills that are a prerequisite at the highest level. Compared that with the same footballer in Portlaoise or St Paul's and that's the issue. And I use St Paul's deliberately. Excuse me if I'm wrong on this but it seems a really good relationship. It's not an Emo or Courtwood Gaels team, the clubs involved know what they're getting out of it and they actively put work into it. The players are benefitting from the structure and the exposure to good training and 'A' competition.
In years to come, there may be a conversation about the arrangement extending to adult level but again, that's a really separate one.

The first solution to this needs to come primarily from the clubs. Look at their primary school(s), can they get 10 boys in first class still playing in 1st Year. If they do this consistently across a decade and have quality coaching, a bit of luck and things go for them, they'll improve. If they can't get those numbers through, they need to think of a way around it.

The other solution needs to come from the County. Development Panels need to look beyond the Athletic and dominant 'Big Lads' and cast a net that includes player who may be late bloomers. The balance is key.

I'm not saying for a second that this will cure the ills within our Senior Football or Hurling Championships. They're separate issues as far as I'm concerned. I do think 16 senior football clubs is too many...I actually think 8 hurling is too few. But I am adamant that Divisional Teams entering the senior championships are not the panacea that some claim.
Not disagreeing with any of your post but (and I stand to be corrected on this) isn't Rob Tyrell a Dublin born lad who only moved to Camross aged around 13 or 14? He actually might not be the best example but I know where you are coming from.

High Fielder

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #70 on: August 13, 2019, 05:40:02 PM »
I think it's only an issue at underage level.

I presume it's fair to see Rob Tyrrell as a good example.

He came through as a fine footballer from a club where the focus is conservatively 75% hurling. As things stand now, if he was called into a Laois panel then he would be getting County training from say November-June. He'd go back and kick a bit of junior, hurl a few games and then have a couple of months to do some recovery and S&C before going back in with Laois.
Is that really an issue??

I accept, however, that there are players aged 13 right now who are potential senior footballers in 8 years. They could easily fall through the cracks.
The challenge for them is that they may be playing 'B' grade on their own or with some ramshackle amalgamation. He's likely training twice a week with 11 year olds making up the numbers and he never needs to learn the fundamental skills that are a prerequisite at the highest level. Compared that with the same footballer in Portlaoise or St Paul's and that's the issue. And I use St Paul's deliberately. Excuse me if I'm wrong on this but it seems a really good relationship. It's not an Emo or Courtwood Gaels team, the clubs involved know what they're getting out of it and they actively put work into it. The players are benefitting from the structure and the exposure to good training and 'A' competition.
In years to come, there may be a conversation about the arrangement extending to adult level but again, that's a really separate one.

The first solution to this needs to come primarily from the clubs. Look at their primary school(s), can they get 10 boys in first class still playing in 1st Year. If they do this consistently across a decade and have quality coaching, a bit of luck and things go for them, they'll improve. If they can't get those numbers through, they need to think of a way around it.

The other solution needs to come from the County. Development Panels need to look beyond the Athletic and dominant 'Big Lads' and cast a net that includes player who may be late bloomers. The balance is key.

I'm not saying for a second that this will cure the ills within our Senior Football or Hurling Championships. They're separate issues as far as I'm concerned. I do think 16 senior football clubs is too many...I actually think 8 hurling is too few. But I am adamant that Divisional Teams entering the senior championships are not the panacea that some claim.

Good post in fairness. Good common sense. I'm neither for or against Divisioal teams but I am in favour of getting lads involved with Senior football in whatever guise that takes. Sugrue in fairness trawled the county, but it was only a snapshot. Consistent exposure to good coaching and good football is what some lads need, and at the moment, there are many lads slipping through the cracks

The PRO

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #71 on: August 13, 2019, 10:20:06 PM »
Beg your pardon. 3 games. That shouldn't detract from the main point. If we're looking to offer a better standard of football to lads who might be interested in that, we could go Divisional sides or giving lads access to Senior clubs. Maybe someone more knowledgable could explain the rules that govern this.
Not going to claim to be more knowledgeable, but a non senior club player can't play with a senior club team. That's why the "Gaels" teams are no longer allowed.
The only way a non senior club player can play in the senior championship is if the county board accept the entry of a team formed by two or more non senior clubs.

High Fielder

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #72 on: August 13, 2019, 10:44:47 PM »
Which has been done before and rejected. Thanks PRO

Laoiseabu

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2019, 03:55:40 PM »
All gone very quiet here lately . Port were by far the better team in the replay . The pace in the side really stood out . It would be a fairly good tussle between themselves and Portlaoise , two similar style teams with similar enough players . Anyone know why Adam Ryan is only coming in as a sub ? Also anyone know where Cathal Ryan is ? And young Diarmuid Bennett that was full back for the u20s last year ? Didn’t see the big McCann chap either ? Or young Kennedy in the backs who was a sub for the u20s this year ?the goalkeeper Osborne was injured too . Steven Lyons wasn’t togged out either

SCFC

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Re: Laois Senior Football Championship 2019
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2019, 04:21:08 PM »
All gone very quiet here lately . Port were by far the better team in the replay . The pace in the side really stood out . It would be a fairly good tussle between themselves and Portlaoise , two similar style teams with similar enough players . Anyone know why Adam Ryan is only coming in as a sub ? Also anyone know where Cathal Ryan is ? And young Diarmuid Bennett that was full back for the u20s last year ? Didn’t see the big McCann chap either ? Or young Kennedy in the backs who was a sub for the u20s this year ?the goalkeeper Osborne was injured too . Steven Lyons wasn’t togged out either
Bennett is in America for the summer. I think Kennedy was a sub and McCann too.
On the round 3 draw, I reckon Ballyfin and Killeen were probably happy enough to draw each other. They'll both fancy their chances.
You could say the same about Ballylinan v Courtwood.
I think Ballyroan and Joseph's could be close too, maybe Ballyroan to edge it.
Emo v Graigue? Maybe Emo by a few points. Depends if Graigue get a couple back from injury and travel.