Author Topic: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report  (Read 3465 times)

Farrandeelin

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2019, 10:58:08 PM »
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
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Hound

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2019, 11:03:52 PM »
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.






manfromdelmonte

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2019, 11:15:01 PM »
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?

TheMaster

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2019, 11:40:33 PM »
You look at this and you see different

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Hound

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2019, 07:50:25 AM »
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?
This is the whole misconception.

Do you think it was the Raheny GPO that turned Brian Fenton and Howard into great footballers? People seem to think they do. But he'd practically zero contact with them. It was the parents of the club teams.

How do Kerry produce 5 minor winning teams in a row? Where's their GPOs? It's the parents at the clubs do the main coaching. Then I presume, like in Dublin, they've plenty of ex-Kerry footballers giving their time when they get onto Kerry development squads.

What the GPO does, primarily, is try to get more players to play. In Kerry, if you're a top footballer, then it's probably 90%+ certain, you're going to pick gaelic. In Coolock, you're 90% certain to pick soccer, same with Balbriggan. The latter, one of the biggest towns in Dublin, can't even field a minor team on their own this year.

If you're in a town/village where every young lad plays GAA, then a GPO would be practically irrelevant. I'm sure every primary school in Kerry has gaelic for PE every single week. And for the 50% of the GPO's time spent in Dublin clubs, well the members fund that half out of their own pockets.

The GAA are focusing their GPO spend outside of Dublin in areas where they see there is most competition. About 100 coaches in Leinster I believe. And clubs/members not asked for the 50%, unlike in Dublin.

From the Bunker

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2019, 09:19:29 AM »

manfromdelmonte

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2019, 09:36:21 AM »
Not all primary school children are members of the GAA. Lar was putting forward €/player I think.
Exactly. That's the apples and oranges bit.

€/player is completely irrelevant. The funds are largely aimed at the children in the 4-12 age bracket, whether members or not.
What about the kids in schools down thr country getting no coaching visits?
This is the whole misconception.

Do you think it was the Raheny GPO that turned Brian Fenton and Howard into great footballers? People seem to think they do. But he'd practically zero contact with them. It was the parents of the club teams.

How do Kerry produce 5 minor winning teams in a row? Where's their GPOs? It's the parents at the clubs do the main coaching. Then I presume, like in Dublin, they've plenty of ex-Kerry footballers giving their time when they get onto Kerry development squads.

What the GPO does, primarily, is try to get more players to play. In Kerry, if you're a top footballer, then it's probably 90%+ certain, you're going to pick gaelic. In Coolock, you're 90% certain to pick soccer, same with Balbriggan. The latter, one of the biggest towns in Dublin, can't even field a minor team on their own this year.

If you're in a town/village where every young lad plays GAA, then a GPO would be practically irrelevant. I'm sure every primary school in Kerry has gaelic for PE every single week. And for the 50% of the GPO's time spent in Dublin clubs, well the members fund that half out of their own pockets.

The GAA are focusing their GPO spend outside of Dublin in areas where they see there is most competition. About 100 coaches in Leinster I believe. And clubs/members not asked for the 50%, unlike in Dublin.
The coaches in Leinster are county board coaches
Most of them are part time

I know schools that don't receive any GAA coaching, for whatever reason.
Therefore there could be a few children in the school who have loads of talent and could be the next county player

Don't assume every child in rural Ireland plays. That is not the case at all.

seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2019, 10:18:26 AM »
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
Lookit

Rossfan

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2019, 10:20:29 AM »
Free admission and pay the players?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

manfromdelmonte

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2019, 11:18:04 AM »
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others

Hound

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2019, 09:09:45 AM »
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others
Yeah, and you make sweeping generalisations, and when asked to back them up, you just ignore!

"I know this club...."  "I know this school...." 
Of course you do!

And, of course, the 100 full-time paid coaches in Leinster are far weaker than the paid coaches in Dublin!!

manfromdelmonte

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2019, 09:56:00 AM »
So its Dublin GAA's fault thst rural Ireland is unsustsinable?
It's unsustainable due to almost all development  investment going into the Dublin  region
Both by the government and the GAA.
The GAA is a Neoliberal organisation now
Joe Brolly would back me up on this

We need a new economic system
No it's a perfectly formed communist system
Portrays itself as everyone being equal, but clearly some are more equal than others
Yeah, and you make sweeping generalisations, and when asked to back them up, you just ignore!

"I know this club...."  "I know this school...." 
Of course you do!

And, of course, the 100 full-time paid coaches in Leinster are far weaker than the paid coaches in Dublin!!
Ok. I was involved in a club and schools in Dublin for a few years, I know the setup there very well.
I am involved with clubs and schools down the country, I know the setup there.

the two of them are night and day. even the way the schools GAA is run. Sure Dublin have a full time person to look after the primary schools competitions.
If there are 100 'paid' coaches in Leinster, majority are part time and many only do one day a week in a local school.
But most Dubs don't seem to understand that.

Lar Naparka

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2019, 12:02:47 PM »
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

manfromdelmonte

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2019, 02:01:38 PM »
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
money is never given directly to schools
and just because a school has a big number of pupils doesn't mean they are all getting coaching by the county board provided coaching hours.
eg in our county all the coaching hours given to schools are focused on the junior and senior infants and fundamental skills (I personally think this is the wrong age group to be funding coaching for) for usually a six week block. So 75% of the pupils in the school get no contact time with a GAA coach.
Whereas in Dublin the coaching model is different and much more on getting the kids out playing the sport and down to the local club, which is a much better model.

Lar Naparka

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2019, 08:52:54 PM »
For what it’s worth, I wish people would shut the f**k up about Dublin getting larger grants.

A quarter of the population live in that county. If they weren’t receiving an exceptional percentage of overall funding spend, it would be wholly unfair on people born in Dublin, and would be detrimental to the GAA’s grassroots policy of “get them involved with their club early, get them involved for life”.

This is NOT a modern GAA problem. This one rolls all the way back to 1884, when the core constructs of the Association were founded upon the well-meaning and identity-building - but fundamentally imbalanced - partition of jurisdictions according to county lines.

It just so happens that Dublin have come across a golden generation of players at the same time that social media has enabled every dimwit across the land to have an opinion, and to drumbeat the populist narrative. The Dublin dominance issue will  fix itself in a couple of year, except the dimwits in 10 years time will then be yelping about how the GAA needs a strong Dublin.


——-

Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

——
I think you are missing the point here. The development grant(s) are not dished out to counties but per individual player. Going by the last published figures I know of, (2010-2014) Dublin got over €274 per individual, regardless of status.By comparison each  Mayo was paid €22 (or thereabouts) and Kerry got the princely sum of €19 for every player they had registered.
For the record, Dublin has easily the lowest participation rate of any county in Ireland. Here I am talking about active participation as players or supporters.
No rocket science involved here- say Dublin play Longford and 50% of the population of Longford turn up, whereas it would be unlikely that Dublin would bring anywhere near 5% of its population along. Which county would have the greater support at the game?
Lots of apples and oranges there Lar.

here's the actual breakdown:


Sorry Hound, I couldn’t respond sooner than now.
I don’t doubt your word and if the info you posted is relevant in some way to the discussion in hand, I’ll take your word for it.


But, for the life of me, I can’t make head nor tail of what these stats mean!
I take it that it’s the General Development Fund’s grants to primary schools. Now, who got the money, the principal or a particular GAA club?
Was there specific conditions attached to the payment of these grants?
I am going to assume that the dosh was given to some club or other and from there on, it was (is?) up to the club to devise a training schedule to qualify for the money from the GDF.
Otherwise, I cannot see how the scheme could operate. Farr will tell you that no school principal could allow any outsider to dictate school policy with regard to activities of any sort during school hours.
So, who gets the money and what are the duties /requirements to qualify for the it?
I was heavily involved with primary schools GAA for decades in Finglas and I had (still) have excellent relations with the Isles.
They were the first club I heard of to begin sending young players out to schools in the area to help coach kids after hours and, in some cases, they assisted schools in fielding teams for competitions but , again school policy wouldn’t allow a complete takeover of anything to do with the school by anyone  who could be termed an outsider. Insurance complications involved otherwise.
Now, with three teachers heavily involved in pushing Gah games within my school and with every possible help from the Isles there was never a pickup of more than 5% of pupis who stayed with the club after they left the school and moved n to secondary level.
What I am leading up to is that allocating cash for kids who are not going to be of any use to the GAA  after they leave primary school is a bit daft to me.
My county allegiances is one thing but I am a Gah man at heart and I’d love to see kids everywhere playing the native games but I don’t see any major increase in participation in any clubs or schools I am aware of.
money is never given directly to schools
and just because a school has a big number of pupils doesn't mean they are all getting coaching by the county board provided coaching hours.
eg in our county all the coaching hours given to schools are focused on the junior and senior infants and fundamental skills (I personally think this is the wrong age group to be funding coaching for) for usually a six week block. So 75% of the pupils in the school get no contact time with a GAA coach.
Whereas in Dublin the coaching model is different and much more on getting the kids out playing the sport and down to the local club, which is a much better model.
Fair enough, I can follow your meaning but it doesn’t answer the questions I put to Hound.
Originally, I was referring to the row that kicked off the Dublin, GAA and Money  (or whatever) thread. The infographic URL posted around post #5 or 6 was what I considered the actual report.
Until Hound put up the one we are talking about now, I had never heard of its existence and I still don’t see what relevance it has to GDF initiatives to promote coaching to any children, boys or girls.
If, as it appears to me, the money is given to local clubs and is based on the numbers of school children in the area, then Dublin must be even more in front of the posse than I thought.
That just cannot possibly be the case.
Anyway, on a wider issue, is there any way of keeping tabs on central funds given to clubs for GD work? Is there any degree of accountability or scrutiny involved?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi