Author Topic: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report  (Read 8681 times)

Owenmoresider

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2019, 11:26:32 AM »
Nobody is watching Div 3 or 4 teams at the minute. A tiered championship won't make a difference with coverage, but at least we won't get as many one sided games. Watch this weekend to see how many rubbish, one sided, shite games there are.
True, but Carlow got a bit of exposure by causing an upset in the current competition which also raised excitement in the county.

The question I'd ask is, would the players/management/supporters of Carlow prefer that bit of a run/chance of a bit of a run, or would they prefer to compete and have a better chance of winning a B/C competition.
That's the thing, two years ago Carlow footballers made life difficult for Dublin for 50-55 minutes before falling away, and then gave Monaghan a proper game with only a late goal seeing Monaghan home. The same year their hurlers won the Christy Ring Cup with an impressive defeat of Antrim. Which team's feats grabbed the Carlow public's attention more?

seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2019, 12:03:22 PM »
Maybe they should ask the fans who don't go to matches any more
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seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2019, 01:47:54 PM »
Attendances are the metric to watch

Plus TV viewing stats
Sport without competition is a very hard thing to sell
Maybe this year only one match will be of general interest
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seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2019, 09:09:46 AM »



https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-solution-in-sight-to-countering-dublin-s-dominance-1.3963983

"*The ironic thing is that if Dublin hadn’t made this metamorphosis into such a frighteningly strong commercial and athletic force this would be heralded as a golden age for the game. Kerry and Donegal played All-Ireland-winning calibre football in a classic on Sunday. Tyrone are lurking. Mayo are amassing for one of their heroic last stands.
If Dublin were just extremely good rather than this omnipotent force, then this year’s All-Ireland would be wonderful.
Instead a vague sense of hopelessness is hanging over the thing. The last time I felt like this was when I was an emerging player in the early 1980s and it was all about Dublin and Kerry. We were just waiting for Kerry to get old and go away – and that took a long time.

*I don’t have any sense that Dublin are ever going away again. It points to very difficult times for every other county in Ireland for many years to come. And the solution is not at all obvious.

*Dublin are on a par with Kerry in terms of attacking movement. They empty out pockets, go on dummy runs. They will make 50-metre runs just to get a short kickout – and often won’t get the ball at all. Sooner or later the tracker gets tired and switches off, and then the openings come. After that, as happened to Roscommon, the floodgates open.

*sooner or later Dublin will identify an excellent replacement candidate and will bring through complete players that we haven’t heard of.
Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan just came into the senior team as the fully achieved thing. It seemed like these guys walked in off the street but, of course, they didn’t. And there are many more like them waiting in the wings."
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seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2019, 09:28:03 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-hiding-from-mayo-s-many-mistakes-against-dublin-1.3984163


The more I look at these big games, one measurement jumps out at me increasingly: the attacks-to-shots-to-scores measurement. In many ways, the modern metric revolves around accuracy: how many of your shots are flying over the bar? We saw it with Tyrone on Sunday: when the shots stop going over the bar, things grind to a halt. But interestingly, Dublin had 37 attacks. Mayo had 34. Then you drill further down down: Dublin got 26 shots away and Mayo got 24 shots. Again, no great disparity. But of those totals, Dublin were successful with 17 and Mayo just 11. It was 65 per cent against 46 per cent in terms of accuracy. And 65 is quite low by Dublin standards: they are often in the high 70s or low 80s.
I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan’s goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.

Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before"
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Taylor

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2019, 09:54:51 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-hiding-from-mayo-s-many-mistakes-against-dublin-1.3984163


The more I look at these big games, one measurement jumps out at me increasingly: the attacks-to-shots-to-scores measurement. In many ways, the modern metric revolves around accuracy: how many of your shots are flying over the bar? We saw it with Tyrone on Sunday: when the shots stop going over the bar, things grind to a halt. But interestingly, Dublin had 37 attacks. Mayo had 34. Then you drill further down down: Dublin got 26 shots away and Mayo got 24 shots. Again, no great disparity. But of those totals, Dublin were successful with 17 and Mayo just 11. It was 65 per cent against 46 per cent in terms of accuracy. And 65 is quite low by Dublin standards: they are often in the high 70s or low 80s.
I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan’s goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.

Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before"

Was that the time when the Dublin defence had the ball and an arm/fist was raised? This was replicated by someone else out the field

shark

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2019, 10:27:23 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-hiding-from-mayo-s-many-mistakes-against-dublin-1.3984163


The more I look at these big games, one measurement jumps out at me increasingly: the attacks-to-shots-to-scores measurement. In many ways, the modern metric revolves around accuracy: how many of your shots are flying over the bar? We saw it with Tyrone on Sunday: when the shots stop going over the bar, things grind to a halt. But interestingly, Dublin had 37 attacks. Mayo had 34. Then you drill further down down: Dublin got 26 shots away and Mayo got 24 shots. Again, no great disparity. But of those totals, Dublin were successful with 17 and Mayo just 11. It was 65 per cent against 46 per cent in terms of accuracy. And 65 is quite low by Dublin standards: they are often in the high 70s or low 80s.
I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan’s goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.

Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before"

Was that the time when the Dublin defence had the ball and an arm/fist was raised? This was replicated by someone else out the field

Yeah it was Cooper. I wondered about that at the time.

Taylor

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2019, 10:32:31 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-no-hiding-from-mayo-s-many-mistakes-against-dublin-1.3984163


The more I look at these big games, one measurement jumps out at me increasingly: the attacks-to-shots-to-scores measurement. In many ways, the modern metric revolves around accuracy: how many of your shots are flying over the bar? We saw it with Tyrone on Sunday: when the shots stop going over the bar, things grind to a halt. But interestingly, Dublin had 37 attacks. Mayo had 34. Then you drill further down down: Dublin got 26 shots away and Mayo got 24 shots. Again, no great disparity. But of those totals, Dublin were successful with 17 and Mayo just 11. It was 65 per cent against 46 per cent in terms of accuracy. And 65 is quite low by Dublin standards: they are often in the high 70s or low 80s.
I was interested in their game management after Lee Keegan’s goal. I noticed that they there was a signal given and they went into a hand-passing drill back and forth to take the sting out of the game after that score.

Any bit of rebellion that Mayo may have had was drained out by this couple of minutes of patient recycling. This was only the 52nd minute. The 12 points in 12 minutes is over: they have the game won and they can control the tempo and just see it out. They were not about to get sucked into one of those helter-skelter closing finishes with which Mayo nearly caught them before"

Was that the time when the Dublin defence had the ball and an arm/fist was raised? This was replicated by someone else out the field

Yeah it was Cooper. I wondered about that at the time.

Was just surprised they made the signal so 'evident' that everyone could see what they were at

seafoid

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2020, 12:05:35 PM »
‘Out-dated, outmoded, and turning people off’: Niall Moyna on championship

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/out-dated-outmoded-and-turning-people-off-niall-moyna-on-championship-1.4154409

Coach says football league is generating real competition between similarly skilled teams


Ian O'Riordan


 
It’s just over a year since Niall Moyna predicted the “death knell” for Gaelic football, in part because of his growing frustration with the style of football being played at college competitions such as the Sigerson Cup. But he is a little more cheerful this weather.

Last year Moyna also stepped away after 18 years of uninterrupted coaching at Dublin City University (DCU), where he is head of the School of Health and Human Performance. During that time he won four Sigerson Cups, as well as being part of the Dublin backroom team that helped claim the breakthrough 2011 All-Ireland under manager Pat Gilroy.

“When I said that last year [about Gaelic football], I was really referring to championship,” says Moyna. “Look at start of the football league on Sunday, the Division One games: outside the Meath-Tyrone game, every game was a draw or one-point difference. Same in Division Two. I looked at the average winning score from the first round last year, it was 2.4 points.

If you look at the championship, you’re very lucky to get four good games the whole championship
“Why? Because you’re competing against teams of similar ability. The championship is totally out-dated, outmoded, and so is the provincial championship. And it’s turning people off. They’re coming in their thousands to watch national league games, because of the quality.

“But if you look at the championship, you’re very lucky to get four good games the whole championship. Every game at the weekend was a competitive game. I’d go to a Division Four game in the league, because you’re going to see a competitive game. It’s not the same standard as Division One, but it’s competitive, and that’s what people want to see. Not some team having to put 15 men behind the ball because they’re being totally out-classed by a much superior team. And that’s the issue that has to be seriously addressed.”


 
Renewed
Moyna’s enthusiasm has also been renewed in other ways too.

“Well, I started getting involved again. Pat Gilroy asked myself and Mickey Whelan to get involved with the St Vincent’s under-21s, at the end of the year, so that sort of got me back in again.”


The Sigerson Cup is an amazing competition, I was involved for 18 years, and saw the impact that it had
However, he still has his issues with the Sigerson Cup, especially with the under-20 football championship effectively being dumped in on top of it.

“I also think now, for the most part, the inter-county managers have unfettered access to their players for most of the year. After the Sigerson is over, the clubs don’t even get them.

“Now, to placate the inter-county managers, they’ve squeezed it [the Sigerson] into the month of January. Now we were very lucky this January with good weather; what happens if it’s snowy and sleeting and matches are postponed?

“And I think the inter-county managers are being extremely unreasonable. This is an amazing competition, I was involved for 18 years, and saw the impact that it had. I had Dublin players who between them have probably won over 70 medals by now, and they will tell you the Sigerson was the foundation stone for their career. And for many players – and inter-county managers from particularly the weaker counties should appreciate this – it’s the one chance to win a national title.

“It’s their one chance, at a high level, to play with people from other counties. And I know from my own college experience, they are the friends I’ve had for the rest of my life. And I think inter-county managers and county boards are being unreasonable and unfair.


“I sat on the committee that changed the age groups, and that’s something we need to go back and look at again, the whole under-20 or under-21, and what it’s played as well. They seem to have got the hurling right, it starts later, and they get the final played later in the year, and maybe we need to look at a similar model in football.”

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Rossfan

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2020, 12:29:04 PM »
Another lad moaning.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

Taylor

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2020, 12:38:11 PM »
‘Out-dated, outmoded, and turning people off’: Niall Moyna on championship

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/out-dated-outmoded-and-turning-people-off-niall-moyna-on-championship-1.4154409

Coach says football league is generating real competition between similarly skilled teams


Ian O'Riordan


 
It’s just over a year since Niall Moyna predicted the “death knell” for Gaelic football, in part because of his growing frustration with the style of football being played at college competitions such as the Sigerson Cup. But he is a little more cheerful this weather.

Last year Moyna also stepped away after 18 years of uninterrupted coaching at Dublin City University (DCU), where he is head of the School of Health and Human Performance. During that time he won four Sigerson Cups, as well as being part of the Dublin backroom team that helped claim the breakthrough 2011 All-Ireland under manager Pat Gilroy.

“When I said that last year [about Gaelic football], I was really referring to championship,” says Moyna. “Look at start of the football league on Sunday, the Division One games: outside the Meath-Tyrone game, every game was a draw or one-point difference. Same in Division Two. I looked at the average winning score from the first round last year, it was 2.4 points.

If you look at the championship, you’re very lucky to get four good games the whole championship
“Why? Because you’re competing against teams of similar ability. The championship is totally out-dated, outmoded, and so is the provincial championship. And it’s turning people off. They’re coming in their thousands to watch national league games, because of the quality.

“But if you look at the championship, you’re very lucky to get four good games the whole championship. Every game at the weekend was a competitive game. I’d go to a Division Four game in the league, because you’re going to see a competitive game. It’s not the same standard as Division One, but it’s competitive, and that’s what people want to see. Not some team having to put 15 men behind the ball because they’re being totally out-classed by a much superior team. And that’s the issue that has to be seriously addressed.”


 
Renewed
Moyna’s enthusiasm has also been renewed in other ways too.

“Well, I started getting involved again. Pat Gilroy asked myself and Mickey Whelan to get involved with the St Vincent’s under-21s, at the end of the year, so that sort of got me back in again.”


The Sigerson Cup is an amazing competition, I was involved for 18 years, and saw the impact that it had
However, he still has his issues with the Sigerson Cup, especially with the under-20 football championship effectively being dumped in on top of it.

“I also think now, for the most part, the inter-county managers have unfettered access to their players for most of the year. After the Sigerson is over, the clubs don’t even get them.

“Now, to placate the inter-county managers, they’ve squeezed it [the Sigerson] into the month of January. Now we were very lucky this January with good weather; what happens if it’s snowy and sleeting and matches are postponed?

“And I think the inter-county managers are being extremely unreasonable. This is an amazing competition, I was involved for 18 years, and saw the impact that it had. I had Dublin players who between them have probably won over 70 medals by now, and they will tell you the Sigerson was the foundation stone for their career. And for many players – and inter-county managers from particularly the weaker counties should appreciate this – it’s the one chance to win a national title.

“It’s their one chance, at a high level, to play with people from other counties. And I know from my own college experience, they are the friends I’ve had for the rest of my life. And I think inter-county managers and county boards are being unreasonable and unfair.


“I sat on the committee that changed the age groups, and that’s something we need to go back and look at again, the whole under-20 or under-21, and what it’s played as well. They seem to have got the hurling right, it starts later, and they get the final played later in the year, and maybe we need to look at a similar model in football.”

Was interesting until I read this.

Anyone involved in the shitshow of age groups should be embarassed

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2020, 07:48:54 PM »
Fundamentally, where the suits need put in order, is this.

1. Core values of community and volunteering need stamped on their foreheads, sent as daily reminders, typed in 10 foot letters at the top of every letter or enail they read. Every decision they make needs to be evaluated against how it improves the Association for communities and volunteers. If it doesn’t help them, don’t proceed..

2. Strategies, annual budgets and forecasts should focus on minimising expenditure, and not maximising revenue. This concept does not rule out large infrastructure projects or a commitment to coaching; as both provide advantages to members. But it should minimise the desire/need/will to collect pits of cash and then decide what to spend it on. The purpose of this organisation should never be to gather money.

Very hard to disagree with that.


Personally, if I could make one change - I'd ditch the subpar 8s and the qualifiers. Straight knockout championship.

It frees up more time for the club games - which are the foundations everything is built on.
It increases the chances of a overwhelming favourite being picked off on the "off-day".
It focuses supporters on occasions rather than a drawn out series. Who cares if ye missed a subpar 8 game against Dublin? What about missing the game where you might put the Dubs out?


All that bull about 2 championship games being helpful for developing teams is just that - bull.
The championship starts soon after the national league finishes, so its not as if players were ever really training for that "one-off" game and it was such a shame all that effort seen them go out. The qualifiers were the result of f**king journalists spouting shite to fill pages - and the subpar 8s are an extension of that.

It sickened my hole reading in the papers about "super 8s" and "champions league style" this and that - if the journos want champions league style drudge, f**k off and watch the f**king champions league.


Why do we feel the need to copy soccer? Stand alone and don't be afraid of our differences.
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Rossfan

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2020, 10:08:07 PM »
I think you'll find that it was the GAA Congress that brought in the Qualifiers and the last 8 round robin, not journalists.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: the GAA's supercrisis and the 2018 annual Report
« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2020, 10:43:54 PM »
I think you'll find that it was the GAA Congress that brought in the Qualifiers and the last 8 round robin, not journalists.

If you think the journalist clamour for change didn't bring about that vote then I can't help you.
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