Author Topic: Kerry's crown under pressure?  (Read 2465 times)

seafoid

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2019, 11:40:39 PM »
Dublin have currently won 26 games in a row . The most that Kerry group managed was 19.

When Dublin pick up Sam this year they will be probably have won 34 games in a row. The equivalent of 8 AIs for Kerry in the 70s/80s.

They currently have only lost 2 games in 36 matches. That is the greatest legacy of all time.

If Kildare had the pick of 1.2 m people and more money than everyone else they would have won as much, more than likely

It's Kildare......

When did you join the revolution?

Maybe last year some time. Mayo gave the illusion of competition. 
If any other team other than Mayo (or Kildare) had played the Dubs in 3 finals would they not have won 1 of them ? I dunno


I think there is a strong case for counties boycotting the competition now until the GAA restructures it.

Watching the dubs win 6 or 7 in a row is pointless. That's not what your dreams should be.

Dublin played and beat the current Mayo team in 3 finals, do you honestly think the current Galway team would beaten them in those finals or even have gotten as close to them as Mayo did?
Galway had their chance in the semi-final last year and on evidence of that game I personally don't think Galway are able to match what Mayo did in 2013,2015,2016 & 2017 against the Dubs at the moment!
I honestly I am not sure if the current reloaded Mayo team will be up to it this year either!!!

Galway are not up to scratch yet. Say Down or Meath had been at Mayo’s level. Would they have lost 3 finals  to the Dubs by 1 point?
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From the Bunker

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2019, 11:56:54 PM »
Dublin have currently won 26 games in a row . The most that Kerry group managed was 19.

When Dublin pick up Sam this year they will be probably have won 34 games in a row. The equivalent of 8 AIs for Kerry in the 70s/80s.

They currently have only lost 2 games in 36 matches. That is the greatest legacy of all time.

If Kildare had the pick of 1.2 m people and more money than everyone else they would have won as much, more than likely

It's Kildare......

When did you join the revolution?

Maybe last year some time. Mayo gave the illusion of competition. 
If any other team other than Mayo (or Kildare) had played the Dubs in 3 finals would they not have won 1 of them ? I dunno


I think there is a strong case for counties boycotting the competition now until the GAA restructures it.

Watching the dubs win 6 or 7 in a row is pointless. That's not what your dreams should be.

Dublin played and beat the current Mayo team in 3 finals, do you honestly think the current Galway team would beaten them in those finals or even have gotten as close to them as Mayo did?
Galway had their chance in the semi-final last year and on evidence of that game I personally don't think Galway are able to match what Mayo did in 2013,2015,2016 & 2017 against the Dubs at the moment!
I honestly I am not sure if the current reloaded Mayo team will be up to it this year either!!!

Galway are not up to scratch yet. Say Down or Meath had been at Mayo’s level. Would they have lost 3 finals  to the Dubs by 1 point?

They never would have! Meath teams are never beaten and Down always win All Ireland finals.

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Lar Naparka

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2019, 12:10:18 AM »
At the end of the day, you ask the likes of Mike Sheehy how many All-Irelands he won and he can show you 8, same for a lot of the rest of that great Kerry team. They also won the majority (exception 1980) of those All-Irelands in style, whereas Dublin scraped past the post. 5 in a row won't make Dublin a greater team.

Jesus, the ignorance - ask the likes of Cluxton, O'Sullivan and McCarthy how many do they have and they will say six and gunning for seven. Huge difference, eh?
The vital difference, my erudite friend, is that Kerry played on a level pitch with every other county.
They didn't have the benefits of state of the art physical training or sports psychology either. Come to think of it, they didn't have the combined total of 16 other counties to choose from either and more importantly perhaps, the national resources of 50% of it s resources either. (BTW, Simon Coveney said that first, not me.)
I am not being anti-Dublin for the sake of it when I say this.
But I defer to the judgement of Mick O'Dwyer on the subject. (Well, he would say this, wouldn't he?)
According to Micko, the greatest team of all time should compete on equal terms with at least one other side. Kerry beat the socks off all comers during their reign and Dublin...?
What about Mayo? With roughly one tenth of Dublin's population and with tremendous travelling issues, they did remarkably well , didn't they?
So, Dublin may well pull clear of all others in this years championships and all along the route to it and that would mean at least two years clear of the rest. I would be willing to consider them to be the best then but I will wait until and, more importantly, if, that should happen. until then, I'll not commit myself to anything.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 12:14:06 AM by Lar Naparka »
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easytiger95

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2019, 10:50:17 AM »
At the end of the day, you ask the likes of Mike Sheehy how many All-Irelands he won and he can show you 8, same for a lot of the rest of that great Kerry team. They also won the majority (exception 1980) of those All-Irelands in style, whereas Dublin scraped past the post. 5 in a row won't make Dublin a greater team.

Jesus, the ignorance - ask the likes of Cluxton, O'Sullivan and McCarthy how many do they have and they will say six and gunning for seven. Huge difference, eh?
The vital difference, my erudite friend, is that Kerry played on a level pitch with every other county.
They didn't have the benefits of state of the art physical training or sports psychology either. Come to think of it, they didn't have the combined total of 16 other counties to choose from either and more importantly perhaps, the national resources of 50% of it s resources either. (BTW, Simon Coveney said that first, not me.)
I am not being anti-Dublin for the sake of it when I say this.
But I defer to the judgement of Mick O'Dwyer on the subject. (Well, he would say this, wouldn't he?)
According to Micko, the greatest team of all time should compete on equal terms with at least one other side. Kerry beat the socks off all comers during their reign and Dublin...?
What about Mayo? With roughly one tenth of Dublin's population and with tremendous travelling issues, they did remarkably well , didn't they?
So, Dublin may well pull clear of all others in this years championships and all along the route to it and that would mean at least two years clear of the rest. I would be willing to consider them to be the best then but I will wait until and, more importantly, if, that should happen. until then, I'll not commit myself to anything.

Micko was not talking about financial issues or playing population. He was talking about how a great team must be pushed and defined by the other 15 players on the field. And so, his great Kerry sides had Dublin, Offaly, Cork and Offaly as foils.

Since Dublin won in 2011 - beating Kerry by a point, they have won all the All Irelands up to last year's final by no more than 3 points, and been involved in replays for semi finals and finals. Along the way, they have participated in at least three games (v Kerry 2013, v Donegal 2014, final v Mayo in 2017) that have legitimate claims to be amongst the greatest ever played.

Between 2011 and 2015 Kerry, Mayo, Donegal all would have counted themselves as All Ireland contenders or favourites alongside Dublin. Donegal burned out (as happens to smaller counties where gifted generations come along - see Donegal 1992) and Kerry have gone into a period of transition (as happened between 86 and 97 - but it looks like it will be a lot shorter this time and they are only 4 years away from their last AI win) and Mayo, as is constantly said here, and amongst many Dublin fans, could have beaten us at least three times during the 7 games we played from 2012 onwards rather than the once that they actually did (which was another classic of a game).

So, rather than acknowledge the psychological failings of your own team, you enlist the paraphrased thoughts of Mick O'Dwyer (a man who never saw a challenge he couldn't best, a man who dedicated his life to maximising the resources at his disposal, and to proving the fallibility of Dublin) to say that you never could have won, that the game was stacked and that life just isn't fair.

Well life isn't fair, and the best way to learn this, usually, is to participate in or at least follow sports. I'd recommend you start doing that seriously.

I sometimes think it would have been better for us if you had won one of the those All Ireland finals - you would have been killed telling us for years that you beat the best team of all time.

As for my erudition, I save that for the arguments that deserve its employment. Yours, unfortunately, doesn't and never has.

From the Bunker

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2019, 11:40:11 AM »
1974–75 – Meath 0–16 Dublin 1–9
1975–76 – Dublin 2–10 Derry 0–15
1976–77 – Kerry 1–8 Dublin 1–6
1977–78 – Dublin 2–18 Mayo 2–13
1978–79 – Roscommon 0–15 Cork 1–3
1979–80 – Cork 0–11 Kerry 0–10
1980–81 – Galway 1–11 Roscommon 1–3
1981–82 – Kerry 1–9 Cork 0–5 (replay)
1982–83 – Down 1–8 Armagh 0–8
1983–84 – Kerry 1–11 Galway 0–11
1984–85 – Monaghan 1–11 Armagh 0–9
1985-86 – Laois 2–6 Monaghan 2–5

Kerry appeared in 3 National League finals between 1975 and 1986 - They had to rest for the winter?


2011 – Cork 0-21 Dublin 2-14
2012 – Cork 2-10 Mayo 0-11
2013 – Dublin 0-18 Tyrone 0-17[1]
2014 – Dublin 3-19 Derry 1-10
2015 – Dublin 1-21 Cork 2-7
2016 – Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13
2017 – Kerry 0–20 Dublin 1–16
2018 – Dublin 0–18 Galway 0–14

Dublin have appeared in 7 out of 8 National League finals between 2011 and 2018 - No need to rest for the winter?

Dublin have the squad and the set-up to run from League to championship.

This has never happened before!




easytiger95

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2019, 02:02:01 PM »
1974–75 – Meath 0–16 Dublin 1–9
1975–76 – Dublin 2–10 Derry 0–15
1976–77 – Kerry 1–8 Dublin 1–6
1977–78 – Dublin 2–18 Mayo 2–13
1978–79 – Roscommon 0–15 Cork 1–3
1979–80 – Cork 0–11 Kerry 0–10
1980–81 – Galway 1–11 Roscommon 1–3
1981–82 – Kerry 1–9 Cork 0–5 (replay)
1982–83 – Down 1–8 Armagh 0–8
1983–84 – Kerry 1–11 Galway 0–11
1984–85 – Monaghan 1–11 Armagh 0–9
1985-86 – Laois 2–6 Monaghan 2–5

Kerry appeared in 3 National League finals between 1975 and 1986 - They had to rest for the winter?


2011 – Cork 0-21 Dublin 2-14
2012 – Cork 2-10 Mayo 0-11
2013 – Dublin 0-18 Tyrone 0-17[1]
2014 – Dublin 3-19 Derry 1-10
2015 – Dublin 1-21 Cork 2-7
2016 – Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13
2017 – Kerry 0–20 Dublin 1–16
2018 – Dublin 0–18 Galway 0–14

Dublin have appeared in 7 out of 8 National League finals between 2011 and 2018 - No need to rest for the winter?

Dublin have the squad and the set-up to run from League to championship.

This has never happened before!

If you read any of the books from the members of that Kerry team, and Tom Humphries history of the rivalry "Dublin v Kerry", you'd know that resting during the League was exactly what both teams did.

During the period you are erroneously claiming knowledge of, the League was a far less prestigious competition than it became in the early 90s and then again from the late noughties onward. Check out the amount of date changes of the league final from those periods - it was often postponed due to format changes (it was a constant debate as to when the League should actually take place, precisely because the GAA wanted teams to take it more seriously), weather delays etc (pitches were a state back then).

The Kerry and Dublin teams of the time were far more concerned about the All Star Trips that led to matches like the Sister Consilio massacre in New York than league games that were much more about blooding young fellas than they are now (even though that is still a big trend).

Players like Paidi always started getting themselves "ready for Dwyer" as he put it with an eye on the Championship, not the League.

As for modern day Dublin, it is no secret that Gilroy and Gavin afterwards took a lot of inspiration from Brian Cody (who actually has 9 League titles, so this has happened before), in that he thought doing well in the League was essential for success later on in the year. So from a time in the late noughties when we spent a season in Division 2 under Piller, when Gilroy came in be made the League title a priority.

So you can see, you are actually comparing apples with oranges. As I advised before, you should actually start supporting the game seriously, which includes appreciating the history and context of the achievements of previous generations. Otherwise you end up eating orange pie. Enjoy.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 02:13:00 PM by easytiger95 »

tonto1888

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2019, 07:06:55 AM »
At the end of the day, you ask the likes of Mike Sheehy how many All-Irelands he won and he can show you 8, same for a lot of the rest of that great Kerry team. They also won the majority (exception 1980) of those All-Irelands in style, whereas Dublin scraped past the post. 5 in a row won't make Dublin a greater team.

Jesus, the ignorance - ask the likes of Cluxton, O'Sullivan and McCarthy how many do they have and they will say six and gunning for seven. Huge difference, eh?
The vital difference, my erudite friend, is that Kerry played on a level pitch with every other county.
They didn't have the benefits of state of the art physical training or sports psychology either. Come to think of it, they didn't have the combined total of 16 other counties to choose from either and more importantly perhaps, the national resources of 50% of it s resources either. (BTW, Simon Coveney said that first, not me.)
I am not being anti-Dublin for the sake of it when I say this.
But I defer to the judgement of Mick O'Dwyer on the subject. (Well, he would say this, wouldn't he?)
According to Micko, the greatest team of all time should compete on equal terms with at least one other side. Kerry beat the socks off all comers during their reign and Dublin...?
What about Mayo? With roughly one tenth of Dublin's population and with tremendous travelling issues, they did remarkably well , didn't they?
So, Dublin may well pull clear of all others in this years championships and all along the route to it and that would mean at least two years clear of the rest. I would be willing to consider them to be the best then but I will wait until and, more importantly, if, that should happen. until then, I'll not commit myself to anything.

I would argue they werent really on a level playing field with every other county. Certainly not in terms of games to win the all Ireland. 4 games could have seen them win an all Ireland. 4 games to win Ulster if you were in the prelim round

seafoid

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2019, 09:30:22 AM »
1974–75 – Meath 0–16 Dublin 1–9
1975–76 – Dublin 2–10 Derry 0–15
1976–77 – Kerry 1–8 Dublin 1–6
1977–78 – Dublin 2–18 Mayo 2–13
1978–79 – Roscommon 0–15 Cork 1–3
1979–80 – Cork 0–11 Kerry 0–10
1980–81 – Galway 1–11 Roscommon 1–3
1981–82 – Kerry 1–9 Cork 0–5 (replay)
1982–83 – Down 1–8 Armagh 0–8
1983–84 – Kerry 1–11 Galway 0–11
1984–85 – Monaghan 1–11 Armagh 0–9
1985-86 – Laois 2–6 Monaghan 2–5

Kerry appeared in 3 National League finals between 1975 and 1986 - They had to rest for the winter?


2011 – Cork 0-21 Dublin 2-14
2012 – Cork 2-10 Mayo 0-11
2013 – Dublin 0-18 Tyrone 0-17[1]
2014 – Dublin 3-19 Derry 1-10
2015 – Dublin 1-21 Cork 2-7
2016 – Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13
2017 – Kerry 0–20 Dublin 1–16
2018 – Dublin 0–18 Galway 0–14

Dublin have appeared in 7 out of 8 National League finals between 2011 and 2018 - No need to rest for the winter?

Dublin have the squad and the set-up to run from League to championship.

This has never happened before!

If you read any of the books from the members of that Kerry team, and Tom Humphries history of the rivalry "Dublin v Kerry", you'd know that resting during the League was exactly what both teams did.

During the period you are erroneously claiming knowledge of, the League was a far less prestigious competition than it became in the early 90s and then again from the late noughties onward. Check out the amount of date changes of the league final from those periods - it was often postponed due to format changes (it was a constant debate as to when the League should actually take place, precisely because the GAA wanted teams to take it more seriously), weather delays etc (pitches were a state back then).

The Kerry and Dublin teams of the time were far more concerned about the All Star Trips that led to matches like the Sister Consilio massacre in New York than league games that were much more about blooding young fellas than they are now (even though that is still a big trend).

Players like Paidi always started getting themselves "ready for Dwyer" as he put it with an eye on the Championship, not the League.

As for modern day Dublin, it is no secret that Gilroy and Gavin afterwards took a lot of inspiration from Brian Cody (who actually has 9 League titles, so this has happened before), in that he thought doing well in the League was essential for success later on in the year. So from a time in the late noughties when we spent a season in Division 2 under Piller, when Gilroy came in be made the League title a priority.

So you can see, you are actually comparing apples with oranges. As I advised before, you should actually start supporting the game seriously, which includes appreciating the history and context of the achievements of previous generations. Otherwise you end up eating orange pie. Enjoy.

I was thinking about Tom Humphries the other day while reading the Irish times. What a disaster
Has he much left of his sentence ?
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easytiger95

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2019, 10:26:03 AM »
It's actually hard to read his stuff now - Dublin v Kerry was a favourite of mine but it is very hard to separate the writer from the writings. Such a terrible crime and such a waste of talent.

I assume he is still inside but it was only a 30 month sentence which was given in Oct 2017. So, he will be out early in 2021 or perhaps before - I don't know if good behaviour applies.

Crete Boom

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2019, 10:39:39 AM »
Dublin have currently won 26 games in a row . The most that Kerry group managed was 19.

When Dublin pick up Sam this year they will be probably have won 34 games in a row. The equivalent of 8 AIs for Kerry in the 70s/80s.

They currently have only lost 2 games in 36 matches. That is the greatest legacy of all time.

If Kildare had the pick of 1.2 m people and more money than everyone else they would have won as much, more than likely

It's Kildare......

When did you join the revolution?

Maybe last year some time. Mayo gave the illusion of competition. 
If any other team other than Mayo (or Kildare) had played the Dubs in 3 finals would they not have won 1 of them ? I dunno


I think there is a strong case for counties boycotting the competition now until the GAA restructures it.

Watching the dubs win 6 or 7 in a row is pointless. That's not what your dreams should be.

Dublin played and beat the current Mayo team in 3 finals, do you honestly think the current Galway team would beaten them in those finals or even have gotten as close to them as Mayo did?
Galway had their chance in the semi-final last year and on evidence of that game I personally don't think Galway are able to match what Mayo did in 2013,2015,2016 & 2017 against the Dubs at the moment!
I honestly I am not sure if the current reloaded Mayo team will be up to it this year either!!!

Galway are not up to scratch yet. Say Down or Meath had been at Mayo’s level. Would they have lost 3 finals  to the Dubs by 1 point?

If they were only up to Mayo's level yes the result would be the same because Dublin would still be a level above! It is not the good old days anymore Seaf, the old narratives of Mayo can't win in Croke park (they actually play better there now), Meath are never beaten(well they are a lot and by a lot), Down never lose finals(they did to Cork) and Galway are a Croke park team(they have only won one championship game since 2001 there) are blasted into history by the standards first set by Tyrone and Armagh and carried on by the Dubs!!

magpie seanie

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2019, 11:48:53 AM »
It's actually hard to read his stuff now - Dublin v Kerry was a favourite of mine but it is very hard to separate the writer from the writings. Such a terrible crime and such a waste of talent.

I assume he is still inside but it was only a 30 month sentence which was given in Oct 2017. So, he will be out early in 2021 or perhaps before - I don't know if good behaviour applies.


Ya, I can't.

seafoid

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2019, 12:12:35 PM »
It's actually hard to read his stuff now - Dublin v Kerry was a favourite of mine but it is very hard to separate the writer from the writings. Such a terrible crime and such a waste of talent.

I assume he is still inside but it was only a 30 month sentence which was given in Oct 2017. So, he will be out early in 2021 or perhaps before - I don't know if good behaviour applies.

He was a really good writer and he destroyed his life, the life of his victim and his family. Imagine what his kids went through.
Awful stuff
Will always be remembered as the paedo, as Kimmage wrote .
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twohands!!!

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Re: Kerry's crown under pressure?
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2019, 04:03:30 PM »
1974–75 – Meath 0–16 Dublin 1–9
1975–76 – Dublin 2–10 Derry 0–15
1976–77 – Kerry 1–8 Dublin 1–6
1977–78 – Dublin 2–18 Mayo 2–13
1978–79 – Roscommon 0–15 Cork 1–3
1979–80 – Cork 0–11 Kerry 0–10
1980–81 – Galway 1–11 Roscommon 1–3
1981–82 – Kerry 1–9 Cork 0–5 (replay)
1982–83 – Down 1–8 Armagh 0–8
1983–84 – Kerry 1–11 Galway 0–11
1984–85 – Monaghan 1–11 Armagh 0–9
1985-86 – Laois 2–6 Monaghan 2–5

Kerry appeared in 3 National League finals between 1975 and 1986 - They had to rest for the winter?


2011 – Cork 0-21 Dublin 2-14
2012 – Cork 2-10 Mayo 0-11
2013 – Dublin 0-18 Tyrone 0-17[1]
2014 – Dublin 3-19 Derry 1-10
2015 – Dublin 1-21 Cork 2-7
2016 – Dublin 2-18 Kerry 0-13
2017 – Kerry 0–20 Dublin 1–16
2018 – Dublin 0–18 Galway 0–14

Dublin have appeared in 7 out of 8 National League finals between 2011 and 2018 - No need to rest for the winter?

Dublin have the squad and the set-up to run from League to championship.

This has never happened before!

If you read any of the books from the members of that Kerry team, and Tom Humphries history of the rivalry "Dublin v Kerry", you'd know that resting during the League was exactly what both teams did.

During the period you are erroneously claiming knowledge of, the League was a far less prestigious competition than it became in the early 90s and then again from the late noughties onward. Check out the amount of date changes of the league final from those periods - it was often postponed due to format changes (it was a constant debate as to when the League should actually take place, precisely because the GAA wanted teams to take it more seriously), weather delays etc (pitches were a state back then).

The Kerry and Dublin teams of the time were far more concerned about the All Star Trips that led to matches like the Sister Consilio massacre in New York than league games that were much more about blooding young fellas than they are now (even though that is still a big trend).

Players like Paidi always started getting themselves "ready for Dwyer" as he put it with an eye on the Championship, not the League.

As for modern day Dublin, it is no secret that Gilroy and Gavin afterwards took a lot of inspiration from Brian Cody (who actually has 9 League titles, so this has happened before), in that he thought doing well in the League was essential for success later on in the year. So from a time in the late noughties when we spent a season in Division 2 under Piller, when Gilroy came in be made the League title a priority.

So you can see, you are actually comparing apples with oranges. As I advised before, you should actually start supporting the game seriously, which includes appreciating the history and context of the achievements of previous generations. Otherwise you end up eating orange pie. Enjoy.

There is no comparison whatsoever between the League back then and the League now.
The standard of a huge amount of the games in the league would have been just a notch above pitch opening challenge matches.
Teams might take it some way seriously when a league final rolled around but a huge chunk of the games were not taken seriously at all.
From all the stories I've heard from that era, away games in the league were not that dissimilar from stags nowadays.
There was no social media and any press were invited along and kept schtum about any goings-on.
Supposedly everyone loved to play Offaly because their hospitality was legandary.