Author Topic: Muslim gangs abusing children in England  (Read 2762 times)

The Iceman

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2018, 11:45:31 AM »
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.

Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.

We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.

I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.

There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)

You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women.  In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse.  I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....

In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.

Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
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seafoid

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2018, 11:53:36 AM »
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.

Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.

We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.

I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.

There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)

You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women.  In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse.  I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....

In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.

Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
Iceman

That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism  ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?

"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"

Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
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J70

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.


seafoid

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2018, 12:23:23 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.

The Indo had an article a while ago about the murder of a gay RTE producer in Dublin in the 1980s. The Gardaí questioned a large number of people in the gay community about the murder, revealing in the process their homosexuality. A number of  suicides followed.
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The Iceman

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2018, 12:32:11 PM »
Iceman

That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism  ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?

"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"

Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?

You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

The Iceman

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2018, 12:34:44 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime.... 
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

hardstation

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 12:37:43 PM »
Iceman

That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism  ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?

"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"

Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?

You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....
“Catholic countries” such as Ireland have oppressed women and outlawed homosexuality.


J70

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2018, 12:47:17 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....

What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?

The Iceman

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2018, 12:50:46 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....

What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
I already posted why - in my original post - but I'll post one of the articles again here for you:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a
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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2018, 01:42:09 PM »
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.

Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.

We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.

I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.

There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)

You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women.  In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse.  I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....

In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.

Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.

Can you list the differences between Islam and Christianity and which of these differences you find dangerous?

Thanks in advance.

Jell 0 Biafra

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2018, 01:46:26 PM »
I'm not at all sure about how Iceman's concept of me "sending" female family members to live elsewhere is supposed to work, but, for what it's worth, I did live, with my now-wife, for about a year in a muslim country and we have been back several times since.  The women there did not seem to be oppressed any more or less than women in the west.  Unless of course you count the wearing of the hijab as in itself oppression.  I raised this idea with a number of the women I met who did wear it (a lot of women did not), and they all told me that they chose to wear it themselves. 

seafoid

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2018, 01:46:26 PM »
Iceman

That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism  ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?

"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"

Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?

You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/predators-watch-out-for-young-girls-three-students-report-rape-in-first-two-weeks-of-college-term-in-cork-37352096.html

Reports of rape among 'vulnerable' first year students are 'common' and happen annually - rape crisis centres
      Between 45-50 students reported rape in Galway in last 6 months

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/partner-of-amanda-carroll-charged-with-her-murder-1.3672666
A 34-year-old man has been remanded in custody after he was charged with murdering his partner Amanda Carroll who was found dead in her apartment in Dublin on Sunday.

Ms Carroll, who was originally from the north inner city, had worked in Marino, in Dublin. The former child-development student had lived at Homestead Court Apartments for the past 11 years.
She had a 16-year-old son and another child aged four.


Homosexuality is underground in poorer countries. It used to be in Ireland too.
And a lot of Asian countries have their own style of homosexuality which doesn’t conform to the Western gay model.
 My wife and I have lived in a Muslim country. I am not sure that I would send my daughter to school in Kansas



I think your issue is with poverty rather than Islam
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J70

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2018, 02:01:32 PM »
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.

But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?

People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?

Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.

The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....

What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
I already posted why - in my original post - but I'll post one of the articles again here for you:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a

I’m sorry, but that’s a whole lot of intellectual leaps and assumptions that author is making amidst a rant about British people in general passively allowing their society to be changed for the worse by immigration.

Is there any actual data out there? Were the authorities more reluctant in this case, for example, than in the abuse cases involving all those BBC and other celebs a few years back? Are white, native offenders more likely to be investigated? Are there other problems with the Rotherham police force of which their failures in this case might be a symptom? Is it not a historical, universal fact that authorities everywhere have had serious problems investigating sexual assault and abuse?

You may be right in your suspicions, but that piece doesn’t amount to much in the way of evidence.

Puckoon

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM »
Much to respond to there Iceman.

No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily

So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).

Quote
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.

You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.

rosnarun

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Re: Muslim gangs abusing children in England
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2018, 03:03:00 PM »
Much to respond to there Iceman.

No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily

So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).

Quote
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.

You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.

Equating sexual with any religion or race is just stupid .
some men rape women
some men rape children
some men rape other men
some Roscommon men rape sheep

the men are TV producers Priests , Journalists, Immans , social workers , scout leader gaa coaches swin coaches soccer coaches , judges ETC
they are are catholic ,prod ,Jew ,atheist, muslim hindu humanist, animist  ETC
they live in Ireland England usa Pakistan india Russian japan ETC

The closet thing to a common factor is the 95% of the time it is men, We have set moral standard we cant live by but for the sake of civilization all we can do is keep trying
now let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone

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