Author Topic: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football  (Read 3465 times)

twohands!!!

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #90 on: October 05, 2018, 07:08:32 PM »
The tackle is already defined as
Quote

    The tackle is a skill by which one or more players may dispossess an opponent or frustrate his objective within the Rules of Fair Play.
    A tackle is aimed at the ball, not the player. A tackler may use his body to confront the opponent but deliberate bodily contact such as punching, slapping,
    arm holding, pushing, tripping, jersey pulling or a full frontal charge is forbidden. The only deliberate physical contact allowed is that in the course of
    a Fair Charge one player only with at least one foot on the ground , makes a shoulder to shoulder charge on the player in possession.


Basically if more than 2 players are in the act of tackling a player at the same time it's a foul and a free to the player in possession.

Twohands, I don't understand how you draw this conclusion from the rule as stated.  15 guys could be tackling the one player, and so long as they only played the ball and no more than one shouldered him, it's no foul, as per the quoted rule.

Sorry for the confusion - someone earlier in the thread was talking about adjusting the rules to make it that if more than 2 players were tackling a player it would be a foul.
Then someone else say it would be difficult for refs.
I was saying that I didn't think it would be that hard for the refs if a limit of 2 tackles was brought in. Could/should possibly have made it clearer.

You're quite correct when you say "15 guys could be tackling the one player, and so long as they only played the ball and no more than one shouldered him, it's no foul, as per the quoted rule."
The fact that this is legit under the current rules further strengthens the case for amending the rule.

Rossfan

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #91 on: October 05, 2018, 07:25:16 PM »
If someone is wandering about with ball in their hands they deserve to be tackled by as many as possible.
When we have less possession and more moving of the ball we'll have a better spectacle.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 09:59:38 PM by Rossfan »
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Farrandeelin

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2018, 07:53:04 PM »
If someone is wandering about with ball in their hands they deserve to be tackled by as many as possible.
When we have less possession and more moving if the ball we'll have a better spectacle.

Enforce the 4 steps rule properly.
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befair

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2018, 03:03:40 PM »
Was at a 13-side minor game last night; brilliant, free-flowing, plenty of space. Might not be reflected in senior game of course, but easier to administer than the various rule-changes proposed. Would also help weaker clubs/counties to compete.

Armagh Cķchulainns

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #96 on: October 08, 2018, 10:23:55 AM »
Was at a 13-side minor game last night; brilliant, free-flowing, plenty of space. Might not be reflected in senior game of course, but easier to administer than the various rule-changes proposed. Would also help weaker clubs/counties to compete.

13 aside is the first thing I would be looking at when it comes to a rule change.
Forget this nonsense of counting handpasses and kicking forward from sidelines etc.
Its all about the Hurling.

trailer

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #97 on: October 08, 2018, 10:47:30 AM »
I like the fact that the GAA realizes that change is needed and that they are trying to cut out some of the strategies that have poisoned the game recently.  I am looking forward to see how this works out, feel however they missed 2 more significant proposals namely:

1). No passing the ball back past the half way line when inside opponents half - this is sickening to watch.

2). Limiting the number of defenders in your own half, I have suggested that each team must have a minimum of 4 Players (ex goalies) in both halves of the field at all times...  This would hopefully reduce the blanket defense borefest that many games have become.

This is the first year that I have lost interest in football and it's not because of Dublin's domination, it's because of the lack of entertainment on display - it's win at all costs and more managers have been drinking Hartes "we're not here to entertain the fans" magic elixir.

Something has to be done, sports psychologists, specialized coaches and s&c coaches have produced better athletes which ironically has let to less enjoyment.

This!

I think one rule like this would solve a lot of the other 'problems' in the game. No need for 5 rule changes just one good rule change would solve a lot.

I'm not saying that sligoman's rule is the utopian proposal but it is certainly a better draft proposal than a lot of others.

The difficulty with this type of rule is actually enforcing it (i.e. who is going to be watching to ensure that 4 players staying in the opposing 45 when the game is at the far of the pitch?).

As an alternative, I suggest the following:
At kick-outs, the 6 forwards on both teams must be inside the 45 (i.e. in their respective attacking 45). All other players can go whenever they like.
The punishment would be as follows:
- if the team taking the kick out does not have it's 6 forwards in place then the ball is thrown up on the 20metre line (same punishment as currently in place for the goal-keeper taking too long on a kickout)
- if the team defending the kick out doens't have it's 6 players in place when the kick out is taken, the attacking team get a free from where the ball lands (or can play on if more advantageous).

The Pros:
- Keeper (or at least his team) can still dictate the pace of the kickout (i.e. don't have to wait for 30 players to take up positions)
- Should encourage long kick outs to midfield as the 6 forwards will be pushed up on the defenders (probably)
- Whoever gains possession in midfield will have a max of 8 defenders between them and the goal, which should hopefully encourage fast ball into the forwards
- Relatively straightforward to police as the referee just needs to glance around to check there are 6 guys in opposition 45. It's much easier to police than something similar during open play.

The Cons:
- Could lead to a situation where there are 2/3 players lined up on each 45 to run towards their own defence as soon as the kick out is kicked. I.e. teams might still be willing to give up the kick out to get bodies back to pack the defense. However, a good long kick-out, then a mark and another long kick forward would have the ball into the forwards long before the extra defenders get back.
- Possible issue towards the end of a game where a team is chasing a game and are willing to take a risk by putting extra men forward and leaving the 6 forwards unmarked inside the 45. If the team chasing the game wins possession they would immediately have a 14 V 9 overlap. [I think this is the biggest flaw with the proposal] Whilst this is possible to occur at any time during the game I don't think it would ever happen except when a team is chasing a game in the last couple of minutes because the risk is too great (i.e. leaving 6 forwards unmarked inside your 45).
- it doesn't stop teams from getting 15 men behind the ball during open play [However, I believe it encourages teams to keep players up the field]

I'm sure people will ridicule my proposal but think about it before doing so.

Nobody needs to count the 4 players who need to stay in their own half. Each team has 4 designated forwards who must stay in the attacking half of the pitch and 4 defenders who must stay in the defensive half. Those players have a large F for forward or D for defender on the front and back of the jerseys so the ref can see when they cros the halfway. No counting required and easy to referee at all levels of the game. This would transform the game as no team could have more than 10 outfield players in their own half. The other players can go anywhere on the pitch.

This is proper scary. You think this is a viable idea. Wow.

Yes I do. It opens I the game and means teams canít put 15 inside their own 45. If itís the letters on the jersey that people have a problem with it could be just players numbered 2-5 must stay in the defensive half of the pitch and players numbered 12-15 must stay as forwards. Easy to ref at all levels.

Crazy. There's a whole host of reasons as to why this won't work (and is a laughable idea). The fact that you can't see any of them is scary.

Go ahead, hit me with a few

So a player with an 'A' on his Jersey is trying to tackle a player who is free to move over the field. He runs past the 45 or whatever line in the field and the player with an 'A' must stop tackling or chasing him? That player then gets a free run? This is your solution? Scary beyond belief.

If you ever get into a position of responsibility for rule changes in the GAA, do let me know, as clearly the lunatics will have taken over. 

tippabu

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2018, 11:09:39 AM »
I like the fact that the GAA realizes that change is needed and that they are trying to cut out some of the strategies that have poisoned the game recently.  I am looking forward to see how this works out, feel however they missed 2 more significant proposals namely:

1). No passing the ball back past the half way line when inside opponents half - this is sickening to watch.

2). Limiting the number of defenders in your own half, I have suggested that each team must have a minimum of 4 Players (ex goalies) in both halves of the field at all times...  This would hopefully reduce the blanket defense borefest that many games have become.

This is the first year that I have lost interest in football and it's not because of Dublin's domination, it's because of the lack of entertainment on display - it's win at all costs and more managers have been drinking Hartes "we're not here to entertain the fans" magic elixir.

Something has to be done, sports psychologists, specialized coaches and s&c coaches have produced better athletes which ironically has let to less enjoyment.

This!

I think one rule like this would solve a lot of the other 'problems' in the game. No need for 5 rule changes just one good rule change would solve a lot.

I'm not saying that sligoman's rule is the utopian proposal but it is certainly a better draft proposal than a lot of others.

The difficulty with this type of rule is actually enforcing it (i.e. who is going to be watching to ensure that 4 players staying in the opposing 45 when the game is at the far of the pitch?).

As an alternative, I suggest the following:
At kick-outs, the 6 forwards on both teams must be inside the 45 (i.e. in their respective attacking 45). All other players can go whenever they like.
The punishment would be as follows:
- if the team taking the kick out does not have it's 6 forwards in place then the ball is thrown up on the 20metre line (same punishment as currently in place for the goal-keeper taking too long on a kickout)
- if the team defending the kick out doens't have it's 6 players in place when the kick out is taken, the attacking team get a free from where the ball lands (or can play on if more advantageous).

The Pros:
- Keeper (or at least his team) can still dictate the pace of the kickout (i.e. don't have to wait for 30 players to take up positions)
- Should encourage long kick outs to midfield as the 6 forwards will be pushed up on the defenders (probably)
- Whoever gains possession in midfield will have a max of 8 defenders between them and the goal, which should hopefully encourage fast ball into the forwards
- Relatively straightforward to police as the referee just needs to glance around to check there are 6 guys in opposition 45. It's much easier to police than something similar during open play.

The Cons:
- Could lead to a situation where there are 2/3 players lined up on each 45 to run towards their own defence as soon as the kick out is kicked. I.e. teams might still be willing to give up the kick out to get bodies back to pack the defense. However, a good long kick-out, then a mark and another long kick forward would have the ball into the forwards long before the extra defenders get back.
- Possible issue towards the end of a game where a team is chasing a game and are willing to take a risk by putting extra men forward and leaving the 6 forwards unmarked inside the 45. If the team chasing the game wins possession they would immediately have a 14 V 9 overlap. [I think this is the biggest flaw with the proposal] Whilst this is possible to occur at any time during the game I don't think it would ever happen except when a team is chasing a game in the last couple of minutes because the risk is too great (i.e. leaving 6 forwards unmarked inside your 45).
- it doesn't stop teams from getting 15 men behind the ball during open play [However, I believe it encourages teams to keep players up the field]

I'm sure people will ridicule my proposal but think about it before doing so.

Nobody needs to count the 4 players who need to stay in their own half. Each team has 4 designated forwards who must stay in the attacking half of the pitch and 4 defenders who must stay in the defensive half. Those players have a large F for forward or D for defender on the front and back of the jerseys so the ref can see when they cros the halfway. No counting required and easy to referee at all levels of the game. This would transform the game as no team could have more than 10 outfield players in their own half. The other players can go anywhere on the pitch.

This is proper scary. You think this is a viable idea. Wow.

Yes I do. It opens I the game and means teams canít put 15 inside their own 45. If itís the letters on the jersey that people have a problem with it could be just players numbered 2-5 must stay in the defensive half of the pitch and players numbered 12-15 must stay as forwards. Easy to ref at all levels.

Crazy. There's a whole host of reasons as to why this won't work (and is a laughable idea). The fact that you can't see any of them is scary.

Go ahead, hit me with a few

So a player with an 'A' on his Jersey is trying to tackle a player who is free to move over the field. He runs past the 45 or whatever line in the field and the player with an 'A' must stop tackling or chasing him? That player then gets a free run? This is your solution? Scary beyond belief.

If you ever get into a position of responsibility for rule changes in the GAA, do let me know, as clearly the lunatics will have taken over.

Exactly, the funny thing is I wouldn't be surprised if "those who know best" came up with something similar in their next attempts to revolutionise the game. I see where people are coming from and it would be a much more enjoyable game if players held more to their traditional positions but you just can't put restrictions on players to make them do that.


Lar Naparka

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2018, 12:01:36 PM »
I like the fact that the GAA realizes that change is needed and that they are trying to cut out some of the strategies that have poisoned the game recently.  I am looking forward to see how this works out, feel however they missed 2 more significant proposals namely:

1). No passing the ball back past the half way line when inside opponents half - this is sickening to watch.

2). Limiting the number of defenders in your own half, I have suggested that each team must have a minimum of 4 Players (ex goalies) in both halves of the field at all times...  This would hopefully reduce the blanket defense borefest that many games have become.

This is the first year that I have lost interest in football and it's not because of Dublin's domination, it's because of the lack of entertainment on display - it's win at all costs and more managers have been drinking Hartes "we're not here to entertain the fans" magic elixir.

Something has to be done, sports psychologists, specialized coaches and s&c coaches have produced better athletes which ironically has let to less enjoyment.
I think you have just summed up just about all that is wrong with the GAA at every level from senior intercounty down to underage football at club level.
The ethos is on winning- full stop.
In a manner of speaking, fans are trying to have their cake and eat it at the same time.
After all. Gaelic foootball is an amatuer game and yet the psychologists, physios, s&c coaches and god knows who else are employed to push players to the limits of their abilities. To hell with their  academic or business careers or their health or general welfare.
We may  talk about players burnout and then tell them we want a win at all costs.
Sure, football at the moment is a pain to watch and Iím sure every player who puts on a jersey at any level would agree with that.
So at the intercounty level, county boards emphasise to  managers that itís a case of Newbridge or nowhere or feck any idea of entertainment for anyone, just win by fair means or foul. Players are instructed to hold possession at all costs until a chance to score allows them to have a shot.
They know they will be horsed out of it by managers, colleagues and fans if they surrender possession to the other side.
Itís a vicious cycle and I canít see any way out of it.
No amount of tinkering about with the rules of the game will make much difference as every ma
manager worth his expenses will then go about coming up with ways to circumvent them.
ďThe more things change, the more the more they stay the same.Ē
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

lenny

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2018, 09:12:55 PM »
I like the fact that the GAA realizes that change is needed and that they are trying to cut out some of the strategies that have poisoned the game recently.  I am looking forward to see how this works out, feel however they missed 2 more significant proposals namely:

1). No passing the ball back past the half way line when inside opponents half - this is sickening to watch.

2). Limiting the number of defenders in your own half, I have suggested that each team must have a minimum of 4 Players (ex goalies) in both halves of the field at all times...  This would hopefully reduce the blanket defense borefest that many games have become.

This is the first year that I have lost interest in football and it's not because of Dublin's domination, it's because of the lack of entertainment on display - it's win at all costs and more managers have been drinking Hartes "we're not here to entertain the fans" magic elixir.

Something has to be done, sports psychologists, specialized coaches and s&c coaches have produced better athletes which ironically has let to less enjoyment.

This!

I think one rule like this would solve a lot of the other 'problems' in the game. No need for 5 rule changes just one good rule change would solve a lot.

I'm not saying that sligoman's rule is the utopian proposal but it is certainly a better draft proposal than a lot of others.

The difficulty with this type of rule is actually enforcing it (i.e. who is going to be watching to ensure that 4 players staying in the opposing 45 when the game is at the far of the pitch?).

As an alternative, I suggest the following:
At kick-outs, the 6 forwards on both teams must be inside the 45 (i.e. in their respective attacking 45). All other players can go whenever they like.
The punishment would be as follows:
- if the team taking the kick out does not have it's 6 forwards in place then the ball is thrown up on the 20metre line (same punishment as currently in place for the goal-keeper taking too long on a kickout)
- if the team defending the kick out doens't have it's 6 players in place when the kick out is taken, the attacking team get a free from where the ball lands (or can play on if more advantageous).

The Pros:
- Keeper (or at least his team) can still dictate the pace of the kickout (i.e. don't have to wait for 30 players to take up positions)
- Should encourage long kick outs to midfield as the 6 forwards will be pushed up on the defenders (probably)
- Whoever gains possession in midfield will have a max of 8 defenders between them and the goal, which should hopefully encourage fast ball into the forwards
- Relatively straightforward to police as the referee just needs to glance around to check there are 6 guys in opposition 45. It's much easier to police than something similar during open play.

The Cons:
- Could lead to a situation where there are 2/3 players lined up on each 45 to run towards their own defence as soon as the kick out is kicked. I.e. teams might still be willing to give up the kick out to get bodies back to pack the defense. However, a good long kick-out, then a mark and another long kick forward would have the ball into the forwards long before the extra defenders get back.
- Possible issue towards the end of a game where a team is chasing a game and are willing to take a risk by putting extra men forward and leaving the 6 forwards unmarked inside the 45. If the team chasing the game wins possession they would immediately have a 14 V 9 overlap. [I think this is the biggest flaw with the proposal] Whilst this is possible to occur at any time during the game I don't think it would ever happen except when a team is chasing a game in the last couple of minutes because the risk is too great (i.e. leaving 6 forwards unmarked inside your 45).
- it doesn't stop teams from getting 15 men behind the ball during open play [However, I believe it encourages teams to keep players up the field]

I'm sure people will ridicule my proposal but think about it before doing so.

Nobody needs to count the 4 players who need to stay in their own half. Each team has 4 designated forwards who must stay in the attacking half of the pitch and 4 defenders who must stay in the defensive half. Those players have a large F for forward or D for defender on the front and back of the jerseys so the ref can see when they cros the halfway. No counting required and easy to referee at all levels of the game. This would transform the game as no team could have more than 10 outfield players in their own half. The other players can go anywhere on the pitch.

This is proper scary. You think this is a viable idea. Wow.

Yes I do. It opens I the game and means teams canít put 15 inside their own 45. If itís the letters on the jersey that people have a problem with it could be just players numbered 2-5 must stay in the defensive half of the pitch and players numbered 12-15 must stay as forwards. Easy to ref at all levels.

Crazy. There's a whole host of reasons as to why this won't work (and is a laughable idea). The fact that you can't see any of them is scary.

Go ahead, hit me with a few

So a player with an 'A' on his Jersey is trying to tackle a player who is free to move over the field. He runs past the 45 or whatever line in the field and the player with an 'A' must stop tackling or chasing him? That player then gets a free run? This is your solution? Scary beyond belief.

If you ever get into a position of responsibility for rule changes in the GAA, do let me know, as clearly the lunatics will have taken over.

Thatís your only issue. Youíre very easily scared if yo think thatís scary. Both teams have the same number of transition players. If this was brought in the game would go back to how it used to be with players marking each other and not marking in zones in their own 45. The players chosen exclusively as forwards could chase back all the way to halfway but each transition player should have a direct opponent who should be marking him.

tippabu

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #101 on: October 10, 2018, 09:28:07 PM »
When is the decision on which of these rules will be implemented due to be made?

Rossfan

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cjx

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #103 on: October 13, 2018, 09:49:47 PM »
If someone is wandering about with ball in their hands they deserve to be tackled by as many as possible.
When we have less possession and more moving of the ball we'll have a better spectacle.
This is crucial
Making the ball available (ie. not held in someone's stomach) is key to a good game. So yes enforce steps/ time of poscession rule but also encourage kicking and don't make short passing so easy or open to throwing. Easy solution ban the handpass so back to closed fistpass (not so reliable or easy to to be accurate) That alone would encourage kicking and with fistpass mistakes make the ball more easily available/ tranferred to other team thus answer issue raised by Clerkin article in Irish Times today. Soccer is boring shite because of tip tapping around and Gaelic Football is getting as bad with the word  'patience' being used to excuse the severely decreasing number possession changes per match. So make it less easy to retain possession via hard enforcement of 4 step rule and ban handpass entirely.