Author Topic: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football  (Read 3435 times)

Maiden1

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 06:49:51 PM »
How will these proposals impact on underage  for example
On a really windy day , could have an underage team conceding possession/ 45 frees   for an entire half ?
Can club referees keep hand pass count going ?

Not just underage - lots of clubs have pitches near the coast.
Winning the coin toss on a windy day could give a side a major advantage.
Rory Beggan would struggle to get the ball past the 45 meter line on a wet windy day in Connemara.

https://twitter.com/DrunkFootbaIIer/status/1034856259680436224
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:52:09 PM by Maiden1 »
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Stall the Bailer

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »
I think all kickouts should be taken on the 20m line. It would encourage the keepers to go long and be easier to implement, than some of the other suggestions. All players would need to be outside the D to be 13m from the ball.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 07:48:27 PM »
LGFA has been using the sin bin for years. Seems to work for them and it doesn't seem to be controversial.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 07:53:02 PM »
Quote
The Penalty on the day for a Black Card Infraction or two Yellow Card Infractions - an ordering off for ten minutes in a Sin Bin.

A subsequent Black Card Infraction shall be penalised by the showing of a Black Card followed by a Red Card.

A subsequent Yellow Card Infraction shall be penalised by the showing of a Yellow Card followed by a Red Card.

So if you get two yellow cards, do you get the sin bin or a red card?

westbound

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 07:59:07 PM »
It seems to be 2 yellows = sin bin
A third yellow = red card

Isnt the problem with the black card the interpretation by referees of what is a black card offence? I dont see how changing the punishment for the same offences will change things?

Ball Hopper

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 08:16:56 PM »
How will these proposals impact on underage  for example
On a really windy day , could have an underage team conceding possession/ 45 frees   for an entire half ?
Can club referees keep hand pass count going ?

Not just underage - lots of clubs have pitches near the coast.
Winning the coin toss on a windy day could give a side a major advantage.
Rory Beggan would struggle to get the ball past the 45 meter line on a wet windy day in Connemara.

https://twitter.com/DrunkFootbaIIer/status/1034856259680436224

I believe that is Eanna O'Connor back around Dromid/St. Finian's Bay in South Kerry during Storm Eleanor. 

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tippabu

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 08:42:55 PM »
My view on each one of these is that you have to look at the most negative aspects of each proposal over the positive. Im not saying these will happen but there is the chance and you can be sure given time to see things in action managers will be coming up for specific ways of playing them. These are my thoughts anyway, may have picked up some wrong things, may have contradicted myself in some of what im saying and most importantly i might be wrong in my thoughts. Every situation needs to be fully thought through before making any radical changes


3 handpasses

Will this turn into a game of rugby league where one team gets so far turns, kicks it back and start over again. Remember we are where we are because teams are overly cautious and dont want to concede possession so i dont think because we limit the handpass teams will all of a sudden start a long range expansive kicking style. Also Dublin who are far and away ahead of everyone, it wouldnt be long before they use this in a way to create turnover, when the ball is in the defending teams half stand off for couple of passes then a huge push on the kickpass.

Sidelines must go forward

Is this really a huge problem? nearly all sideline go back to secure possession and start an attack from there. I can just see this being more of an advantage to the team conceding the sideline than the team who has won it. The defending team will carry on as they do nowdays and attempt to cut out any forward ball and can leave anyone behind the sideline free (reason most sidelines do go back is because this is where the free player is). Also if i was a defender id be trilled to knock a ball out for a sideline around the 21 as a way of defense, gives you time to get organised and you know there is a very small area of the pitch which can be used or youd have a player attempting shots from sidelines which youd take all day long.

Mark inside the 20

Good in theory but will it just lead to inside forwards being double marked and opposition players coming up with a way to combat the threat? This one could work but its one I would like to see in action and see if it is positive or not

Sin Bin

Personal opinion on this, do we really need black cards, sin bins etc? For me leave it at yellow and red cards. A yellow card would suffice for many of the black cards dished out these days, the likes of the infamous sean cavanagh against monaghan rugby tackle, allow a ref to deem that a red card and not be tied down to having to give a yellow due to the rules. If something is gamechanging cynicism then allow a red for it, the likes of checking a run should be a yellow for me.

2 players each only between the 45s for kickouts

Does there need to be two players designated? At what phase of the kickout do these players need to be identified? If you manage to isolate someone who is really quick on your own kickout with a big slower midfielder with all that space it would be as effective as a short kickout, pull your two players to one sideline middle of the field will have to be open, keeper kicks it there and youd back your players to get there 9 times out of 10. Gone would be the days of quick kickouts and the game would be alot more broken up, take fermangh for example, play a very defensive way, each kickout youd have to wait for everyone who was back sweeping to throd up the pitch and back into the opposition half before the ball is kicked, I can see the merit in this because at each restart you are facing into 6 defenders and not a mass defense but dublin against carlow, carlow would get annihilated with how athletic and physical they are, carlow kick out the ball, dublin win it and its 1 v 1 all in the carlow half, most teams would get eaten alive





macdanger2

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 08:48:11 PM »
1, happy enough to try it but quick handpassing is what creates a lot of goals, it's the ponderous handpassing that kills you

2, not sure it'll have a huge impact but can't see any negative from it

3, iffy enough about this but willing to give it a try. I'm not sure what "problem" it's trying to solve

4, would prefer a sin bin to just replace the black card instead of adding complexity to it

5, not a huge fan of this. Again, not sure what problem it's aimed at

One thing I'd like to see trialled is moving to 13 a side

trileacman

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 09:30:11 PM »
Iíd be very wary of any committee that delegates a forward kick pass from a sideline as a major improvement for the game. Backward kick passes from frees are much more unsightly and common in the game than the rather benign effect of a sideline ball being recycled backwards. I cant really understand the need to include it unless they consider full approval of their suggestions unlikely and this is a piecemeal proposal they view as likely to get passed. Added to the fact that a 22m sideline ball will pretty much a lost cause to most attacking teams unless theyíve Bomber Liston to aim at.

Most of all what really vexes me about these proposal is that referees who lost the ability in the last 5 years to count steps are all of a sudden entrusted with counting hand passes. Why the steps rules is so consistently overlooked is something I simply donít understand. I donít think the handpass rule is significant enough to counteract slow buildup play and the amount of it that it will negate will likely be equal to the emergence of a new blight, the farcical 3m kickpass.

The sin bin rule looks like an EU directive, ridiculously overcomplicated. If the black card rule was such a success why the need to change it? Again Iíd be in favour of a sin bin rule but 10mins is far too long for me and simply a timeframe uprooted from rugby. Sinbinning needs to be a shorter time to make it more palatable and hence it could be much more commonly dished out to players. The problem with black cards is the penalty is so grievous that refs avoid handing them out.

I like the 45m rule, I think itíll work great but be warned itíll really hand advantage to the big conditioned teams. Kildare, Mayo, Dublin, Donegal will probably benefit hugely from it. Laois, Carlow, Fermanagh and the other underdogs will be fucked.
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Esmarelda

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 10:29:26 PM »
I'm stuck for words on some of these. Kick the sideline ball backwards? Really?

As tippabu said, teams handpass the ball generally because the other team are hard to break down. What do we think is going to happen after the third hand pass in most situations? Kick pass back and start again. And as someone else said, some fantastic scores will be stopped if a player on the run has to kick it rather than lay off a hand pass.

The less said about Brolly's one the better. This would completely change the outlook of the game and they can't seriously believe it'll be voted in.

I'd be happy enough with the sin bin as a direct replacement for the black card. I'm not a fan of the mark in the forwards but I think it's actually the second best of this lot.

BennyHarp

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2018, 11:27:55 PM »
Five changes are too many to make at once.
That was never a square ball!!

Mayo4Sam

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2018, 12:14:38 AM »
1. Hand passing is a way to break through a blanket defence, prob the only, taking it out would literally ruin the game.
2. A nonsense rule
3. Great idea, if you can hit the man ur almost guaranteed a point. If they double team u thereís space elsewhere.
4. I like it but the prob with the black card is the reffing of it
5. Have any of these people ever played football? Thatís 1/3 of the pitch to four players!! What happens if u attack from corner back do you have to wait at the 45 like ur waiting for a train before you can run back? Unenforceable nonsense
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omaghjoe

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2018, 04:11:02 AM »
1. Limiting handpasses is a bad idea. Hands the advantage to the defenders. They can stand off until it's time to kick and then they'll go for that man.

2. Pointless but let them work away if it makes them happy.

3. Might be interesting.....

4. Yawn... get consistent application of current rules first....but try it out

5. What's the goal of this exactly? Needs a massive amount of fleshing out but I think its just gonna favour the big teams... but perhaps not. Theres gonna be a lot of space out there so The defending team should have a lot of options for winning the ball. But the devil is in the detail. For example when can the defending team cross the 45 is when the ball is kicked?

All going to be very hard to police also. And obviously only suitable for adult matches.

Hound

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2018, 08:03:01 AM »

Take last years AIF, when David Clarke was kicking out the ball and players were being fouled left right and centre.  Black cards should have been issued. Think about the same scenario now with a Sin Bin and team down to 14 men and a spare man knocking about for the kickout.  Same with someone taking one for the team in the last 5 minutes.  Playing out the last 5 minutes of a tight game with a man down is a major deterrent.

Wow! It's amazing how so many people (who presumably watched the game?) completely forgot what their own eyes saw and instead, like sheep, have their opinions changed to agree with some loudmouth in the media who hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

The incident you refer to happened deep into injury time. There were 6 minutes of injury time indicated by the ref and Rock took the previous free kick to put Dublin ahead at 76:02. The initial kickout went beyond the 45m where there were 2 Mayo men and 3 Dublin men waiting. The ball broke and one of the 3 Dubs, Cian O'Sullivan, was just about to pick it up when everyone realised the whistle had sounded. Before the whistle went the only two players on the ground were Kilkenny and Keegan. After the whistle went a number of other wrestling matches broke out.

Imagine if the ref had black-carded Ciaran Kilkenny and that Dublin had used all their subs so they were down to 14 men and if Mayo had an extra man knocking about for the kickout. Imagine if the ref ordered a re-take of the kickout. Imagine if the ref had added an additional minute and a half to injury time to deal with the time wasted in showing the card and having the kick re-taken. Imagine what Mayo would do with the extra man and extra minute
and a half to get an equalizer.

Maybe you should re-watch it to see exactly what happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxVkVzXci6M
(Rock's freekick at 2:34:30)

The rules were there and implemented, and if Clarke had found a man the narrative would have been how cynicism was duly punished. There was no fouling for the actual final kickout.

dublin7

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Re: Positive proposals at last to address the spectacle of Gaelic Football
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2018, 08:32:43 AM »

Take last years AIF, when David Clarke was kicking out the ball and players were being fouled left right and centre.  Black cards should have been issued. Think about the same scenario now with a Sin Bin and team down to 14 men and a spare man knocking about for the kickout.  Same with someone taking one for the team in the last 5 minutes.  Playing out the last 5 minutes of a tight game with a man down is a major deterrent.

Wow! It's amazing how so many people (who presumably watched the game?) completely forgot what their own eyes saw and instead, like sheep, have their opinions changed to agree with some loudmouth in the media who hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

The incident you refer to happened deep into injury time. There were 6 minutes of injury time indicated by the ref and Rock took the previous free kick to put Dublin ahead at 76:02. The initial kickout went beyond the 45m where there were 2 Mayo men and 3 Dublin men waiting. The ball broke and one of the 3 Dubs, Cian O'Sullivan, was just about to pick it up when everyone realised the whistle had sounded. Before the whistle went the only two players on the ground were Kilkenny and Keegan. After the whistle went a number of other wrestling matches broke out.

Imagine if the ref had black-carded Ciaran Kilkenny and that Dublin had used all their subs so they were down to 14 men and if Mayo had an extra man knocking about for the kickout. Imagine if the ref ordered a re-take of the kickout. Imagine if the ref had added an additional minute and a half to injury time to deal with the time wasted in showing the card and having the kick re-taken. Imagine what Mayo would do with the extra man and extra minute
and a half to get an equalizer.

Maybe you should re-watch it to see exactly what happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxVkVzXci6M
(Rock's freekick at 2:34:30)

The rules were there and implemented, and if Clarke had found a man the narrative would have been how cynicism was duly punished. There was no fouling for the actual final kickout.

Your offering logic and facts to mayo posters. It was all big, bad dublin cheating that cost Mayo

I like the sin bin idea, although if a player gets 2 yellow cards that should still be a red card.

The 3 handpasses idea is a joke. Dublin have shown the way to beat the blanket defence is patience and waiting for your chance.  This rule basically negates this tactic and only encourages the blanket defence.  Some of the best goals have invovled quick handpass

I would have liked a rule that once past your own 45m with possession you cant go back past it. Makes it harder to play keep ball, but still have plenty of space to punish teams when they push up if they are good enough