Author Topic: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh  (Read 20569 times)

Christmas Lights

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #120 on: September 14, 2018, 02:27:55 PM »
Mickey Harte is the man.
This thread proves it.
A thread dedicated to Sean Cavanagh has now descended into a Mickey Harte & prayers thread  8)

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #121 on: September 14, 2018, 02:30:32 PM »
Good point. If Sean reads this he'll be livid lol

APM

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #122 on: September 14, 2018, 02:32:27 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much). 

I'm not worried about the fellas that went along with this and didn't complain - that's just good fortune.  I'm worried about the fact that this sends out a message, that the GAA is an exclusively catholic organisation, which it is most certainly not and nor do we want it to be perceived as such.  When we have a small cohort of protestant (and other faiths) playing for club and county, it is particularly important that we do not allow this kind of image to take hold.

Evil Genius is correct when he asks us to imagine our reaction if, for example, a soccer club in Dungannon held a prayer service before games led by an evangelical pastor.  I think most GAA peoples reaction to that would be "we wouldn't be welcome there".

To be honest, if people cannot see that, then I have serious doubts about how we can build a new Ireland without making the same mistakes that the unionist leaders made throughout the history of NI. 

I suspect that Mickey Harte is very strong in his religious beliefs and would be an exception in the world of GAA managers. I don't think we have a serious problem in the respect that there are few managers who would want to entertain, much less implement these types of practices.  But our reaction to it is very telling and I think we ought to open our minds to the fact that in the nine counties of Ulster, we will need to work hard at making the GAA appear to be welcome to all faiths and none. 

These practices and the acceptance / toleration of this both on this forum, in Tyrone and in the GAA in general, could be seen as a form of institutional bias which we should be working very hard to stamp out. 


APM

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #123 on: September 14, 2018, 02:43:02 PM »
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with. 

trailer

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #124 on: September 14, 2018, 02:50:05 PM »
Anyone who knows harte, knows how he operates. Toe the line or your out. How do we know that the likes of talented footballers like Darren Mc curry or Kyle Coney and the likes haven't left the panel because of this forced religion?

What a strange way for a manager to operate  ::)

Why don't you ask Kyle why he's no longer there?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/i-relied-solely-on-my-talent-that-was-my-downfall-how-the-future-of-tyrone-football-let-his-senior-chance-slip-37264330.html

STG wants there to be a democracy where the players get a vote on who starts in which position. Where everyone has a say and the entire population of Tyrone gets to pick the panel. Delusional doesn't do it justice....

trileacman

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #125 on: September 14, 2018, 02:50:24 PM »
Evil Genius is looking for a rod to beat the gaa with so I’d be dubious about his sincerity in relation to this. His comparisons to the OO and army commeneraetion are unfair as those are defined as more political beliefs than religious ones.

There are clear examples of incidents like this is both rugby and soccer. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/praying-and-playing-for-god-and-ulster-28864429.html
So EG would do well to retract his “unthinkable” quote, not only is it thinkable it happens clearly in rugby at the highest level in Ulster.

If there’s evidence that this was forced on players please provide it. No-one in the squad or a previous member of it has said Hartes Christianity was forced upon them to my recollection. So if the Tyrone panel want to attend mass before a game who to force them to stop? What does that say about your tolerance and acceptance of others?
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trileacman

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2018, 02:52:35 PM »
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with.

Have you any evidence at all that players were “required to attend mass before games” or that a holy joe manager “made them go to mass before the games”?
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Itchy

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #127 on: September 14, 2018, 02:57:19 PM »
While we go into meltdown over prayers in Tyrone, not an eyelid is batted at the close link between American Football and 'Church'. Religion is a huge part of football in US, huge teams from many faith backgrounds participate in prayer before games... I've been to some games there and its a common sight to see individual players kneel and pray before games and its done collectively in the locker rooms.
You can say it has no relevance here but it is interesting that it happens and there does not seem to be any outrage over it.
We are getting too excited. I don't believe Mickey forced his beliefs on anyone and all willingly participated.

Sure who gives a f**k about what the yanks get up to. I couldnt care less what they do or what muslim rituals take place at table tennis in India. GAA is our remit.

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #128 on: September 14, 2018, 02:58:14 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

Not that a post as ridiculous as yours deserves any acknowledgement, but perhaps worth point out again - there has been no suggestion from any informed sources that Harte was forcing his players to attend mass.

I always know I am on the right track when the likes of you starts gets excited about my post!

Itchy

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2018, 03:01:19 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

Those aren't accurate comparisons - I'd say an accurate comparison would be attending a church service, and the comparisons you've chosen are telling about you, but your general point is valid. (On a slight tangent though, weren't Irish league players forced to take part in a ceremony and have an anthem they don't recognise as theirs played as though it were recently??)

I don't see it as a big imposition at all, but nonetheless everyone should have their own free choice - I haven't seen any evidence yet that they didn't. If anyone went to MH and said, I'm not comfortable, do you really think they would have suffered repercussions re selection? I doubt it very much. It would seem noone involved had an issue (Unlike the Irish league example I mentioned earlier actually).

The majority of Irish catholics are brought up with the ritual of mass, when they have their own free choice they'll all attend weddings, funerals, mass at easter/christmas, for whatever reason. A mass before games in this context isn't a big deal. Irish catholicism isn't taken that seriously, its just a routine for many, and I think thats the context it needs to be taken in. its not forcing your religious views onto others, as it is being portrayed.

I think you missed the point there.
Most Irish catholics wouldn't have a major problem with it. But What about somebody who isn't catholic? It's a pretty big deal to anyone of any other religion (or no religion).  It could certainly be viewed as 'forcing' your catholic views onto non catholics.
Obviously, we don't know how much 'forcing' was done, but all managers want players to do things as a team. Therefore it's likely that everyone was strongly encouraged to go as a team!

I'm not missing the point. The players were all from a catholic background. The hypothetical situation you describe didn't occur. If it had, I'm sure it would have been dealt with in the proper manner. MH would of course have been aware of the situation and adjusted accordingly. He is there to build bonds and win matches, not convert people to catholicism.

At the end of the day, this was something willingly partaken in by a group of people comfortable with the environment they were in. What we now have is people outside that environment theorising about what took place, or could have took place, or how players probably weren't comfortable but weren't able to say anything....none of which I believe for a second.

And of course, it could be noted that if there was an issue the captain should surely be the person to bring that up with the management team at the time. Instead he sniped about it later, and hasn't chosen to point out that everyone seemed satisfied with the arrangement (if there'd been any murmurings you can bet he'd have written about them!)


You don't know that to be the case yet your saying others are theorising, surely you're just doing the same. I doubt very much that 30 odd twentysomethings in any Gaelic football squad are practicing Catholics and believe in God. Personally I'd be very annoyed in that was asked of me in a team setting and I think many younger players/fringe players etc. would feel they may not be able to raise their concerns. Harte is in a position of Tyrone GAA authority and a religious man himself, he shouldn't have mixed them together. It was totally out of order IMO.

There hasn't been the slightest murmurings of complaint from those who have ever partaken. Many of these have also left the panel now, so aren't restricted by the fear of MH that some posters would have you believe. So in the absence of a shred of evidence to the contrary, despite ample resources and time for such to be found, I think I'm entitled to form the opinion noone had an issue with it.

I agree completely that they are all very unlikey to be practicing catholics - the point the rest of the post made is that, when brought up as a catholic, you still partake in rituals when it suits - weddings, funerals, christmas, easter - without it costing you a thought. I think the same relevance should be placed on this ritual (i.e. not that much). 

I'm not worried about the fellas that went along with this and didn't complain - that's just good fortune.  I'm worried about the fact that this sends out a message, that the GAA is an exclusively catholic organisation, which it is most certainly not and nor do we want it to be perceived as such.  When we have a small cohort of protestant (and other faiths) playing for club and county, it is particularly important that we do not allow this kind of image to take hold.

Evil Genius is correct when he asks us to imagine our reaction if, for example, a soccer club in Dungannon held a prayer service before games led by an evangelical pastor.  I think most GAA peoples reaction to that would be "we wouldn't be welcome there".

To be honest, if people cannot see that, then I have serious doubts about how we can build a new Ireland without making the same mistakes that the unionist leaders made throughout the history of NI. 

I suspect that Mickey Harte is very strong in his religious beliefs and would be an exception in the world of GAA managers. I don't think we have a serious problem in the respect that there are few managers who would want to entertain, much less implement these types of practices.  But our reaction to it is very telling and I think we ought to open our minds to the fact that in the nine counties of Ulster, we will need to work hard at making the GAA appear to be welcome to all faiths and none. 

These practices and the acceptance / toleration of this both on this forum, in Tyrone and in the GAA in general, could be seen as a form of institutional bias which we should be working very hard to stamp out.

Great post. I am afraid some of the Tyronies just cannot take any criticism of their God manager Mickey Harte. Just cos EG said it doesnt make it incorrect.

APM

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2018, 03:08:18 PM »
I know EG is simply trying to attack the GAA, as is his way, but I agree that there should be no group forced religion brought into the squad set up. 20 years ago it may have been acceptable,  plenty of team masses when I was playing and never an eye lid batted. In fact they became part of the routine and as a player routine is everything so it was important to retain it. However, we could have opted out if we wanted to and lads did the odd time and the management didn’t make an issue.

BCB, I would agree that it was probably acceptable 20 years ago, and couldn't see how it could be tolerated today.  The mad thing is that I would be a weekly mass-goer, but if I was playing football for a "holy joe" manager and he made us go to mass before the games, I would really resent it.  But at a wider level, I think accepting this kind of behaviour leaves the GAA wide-open to allegations of being an institution that is only for catholics and when players for the "second best" team in Ireland are given rosary beads when they join the panel and are required to attend mass before games, it bloody difficult to argue with.

Have you any evidence at all that players were “required to attend mass before games” or that a holy joe manager “made them go to mass before the games”?

No! Forget about that - it's been done to death!

Talk to me about these reports from Cavanagh and others creating the perception of us being an institutionally and exclusively catholic organisation.  A cold house for other faiths. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 03:15:31 PM by APM »

BennyCake

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2018, 03:16:13 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?

APM

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2018, 03:20:16 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?

That's it Benny - but its not just Tyrone that would be affected.  It is the whole of the GAA in Ulster that derives this image from Harte's actions. 

BennyCake

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #133 on: September 14, 2018, 03:27:51 PM »
I know this was nothing new, but the stuff on Mass and the Rosary for me is something that the Tyrone CB should be looking very strongly at.  Totally inappropriate given the message it sends out to those with other faiths and none, that have an interest in playing Gaelic Football.
Noticed an reference to this elsewhere, so took a quick look to see what the reaction was on this forum.

Frankly, I'm shocked - though not surprised - that this particular aspect of Cavanagh's book doesn't merit a thread of its own (or at least some comment from more than one or two individuals).

I mean, is no-one else astonished, even outraged, that a team manager could get away with imposing his personal religious leanings on an entire team, to the exclusion of those who may feel differently?

i read a lot of stuff about sledging and foul play etc, but there is at least some possible redress (referee) or comeback (retaliation) to those things, but what can someone on the Tyrone panel who doesn't agree say or do to this? Speak out and never play for the county again?

And all that's BEFORE you get to the context of sport and society in  NI.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if eg the Linfield manager required his players eg to take part in some sort of Orange Order parade, or British armed forces commemoration, or attend a Free Presbyterian service?

It would be roundly and publicly condemned, with the governing body clamping down immediately, and QUITE RIGHTLY too, imo. In fact, it's unthinkable. (And I say that as someone who pretty much despises Linfield, btw).

"GAA For All (Protestants need not apply)"

I don't think your comparisons to OO are correct. But in general your point is. Harte should not be forcing his players to attend mass or say the Rosary or anything like that. But Harte is a bully and unfortunately a successful Bully which means his methods are beyond question from many in Tyrone. Do Tyrone have any protestants playing for them? Probably unlikely they will if this is what is going on. I think Ulster GAA or national GAA should put some sort of ban or at least a statement out saying this is not acceptable.

That was my thinking. If a promising Protestant player was called up for Tyrone, would he be put off by hearing about the rosary thing? I suspect he might be. And who would blame him?

That's it Benny - but its not just Tyrone that would be affected.  It is the whole of the GAA in Ulster that derives this image from Harte's actions.

Yes I agree. This can do as much harm to the GAA image, as a Protestant player getting sectarian abuse on the field.

haranguerer

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Re: Paul Kimmage interviews Sean Cavanagh
« Reply #134 on: September 14, 2018, 03:28:47 PM »
This is rubbish.

Do you really think Mickey Harte, or indeed any top manager, has got to where they are without being aware of the personalities and their backgrounds in their panels? Do you think that Mickey Harte is making a concerted effort to get his panel to mass, and that he'd make the same effort to apparently convert a non-catholic? It is a pre-game ritual that works for the members of that panel. If the make-up of the panel was such that it wouldn't work, I've no doubt Mickey would identify that and alter it. His job, and one he is keenly aware of, is to win football matches.

Fact of the matter is, you all seem to be taking mass a lot more seriously than anyone I know who attends.

I also find it interesting that it is the mass the focus is on. If actually interested in the Tyrone panels inclusiveness, there are other more controversial examples - the only issue of course, is that Mickey Harte couldn't be made the target for those.