Author Topic: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND  (Read 1739 times)

Sandy Hill

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2018, 04:15:12 PM »
dublin would win some, the rest of ireland would win some......player for player on their day each dublin player would be near enough as good as anyone in their position. Is there any dublin player who wouldnt make the starting 15 of any other team at the moment?

I imagine this thread will quickly turn into naming the rest of ireland teams and argueing over who should and shouldnt be on it
A rest of Ireland team would be comfortably stronger on paper than Dublin.

How many Dublin players are the best in their position in Ireland?

I'd say five.

Cluxton
Cooper
McCarthy
McCaffrey
Fenton

None of the current Dublin forwards would make a best in Ireland team.

Perhaps not but they certainly have the best doctor/ prescribing pharmacist which gives them that performance edge.
[

A really low remark!  Are you from Tyrone by any chance?
"Stercus accidit"

Jayop

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2018, 04:35:18 PM »
Given Tyrone are probably the only team in Ireland close to Dublin in terms of conditioning I wouldn't as a Tyrone person like to start slinging around unfound allegations of doping that could as easily be thrown at us.

tonto1888

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2018, 04:52:09 PM »
A "rest of Ireland" team would annihilate Dublin.

Nope

BallyhaiseMan

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2018, 08:39:54 PM »
A "rest of Ireland" team would annihilate Dublin.

Nope



Dublin team against Galway

S Cluxton; E Murchan, C O'Sullivan, P McMahon; J Cooper, J Small, J McCaffrey; B Fenton , J McCarthy; N Scully, C Kilkenny , B Howard ; C O'Callaghan , D Rock , P Mannion . Subs: M Fitzsimons , C Costello   K McManamon  M D Macauley , D Daly P Flynn

Rest of Ireland(Only a sample team, i could have named another two teams worth of players)

1. Rory Beggan (Monaghan)
2. Colm Walshe (Monaghan)
3. Neil McGee(Donegal)
4. Eoghan Ban Gallagher(Donegal)
5. Lee Keegan (Mayo)
6. Chrissy McKeague(Derry)
7. Tiernan McCann(Tyrone)
8. Kevin Feely(Kildare)
9. Colm Cavanagh(Tyrone)
10.Mattie Donnelly(Tyrone)
11.Michael Murphy(Donegal)
12. Enda Smith(Roscommon)
13. Conor McManus (Monaghan)
14. Damien Comer(Galway)
15. Paddy McBrearty(Donegal)

Don't get me wrong,This Dublin team are a fantastic outfit,but some people are losing the run of themselves...there's outstanding footballers in most counties.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 08:59:12 PM by BallyhaiseMan »

Lar Naparka

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2018, 10:15:50 PM »
You could certainly come up with a team, on paper anyway, where every player would be in the view of the majority better or at least as good as his Dublin counterpart.
The odds would still be on the Dubs to win and win well because of their greater teamwork and their unrivalled preparation, physical and psychological, over any knocked together side you’d care to mention.
I mean Michael Murphy and Paul Geaney would make any team in the land but getting them, Ciaran McManus, Lee Keegan and everyone you’d probably consider together for training sessions would be a logistical nightmare.
Y’see, to properly appreciate the effect the present Dublin team has on the GAA as a whole, you’d need to consider what it would take to build another county side that would equal or at least approximate the Dubs in every facet of the game – clone of Dublin.
You would need to begin by merging some counties for starters.
If you started with the least heavily populated Leitrim (31,972 ) and worked your way up to Wicklow, (142,425) merging the populations as you go, you’d get a total almost identical to that of County Dublin. (All courtesy of CSO, 2016 via Wikipedia.)
That’s a total of 16 present counties, all rolled into one!
So the equivalent of 15 county boards and 15 senior intercounty panels go by the board, to begin with.
How many players get to play for their counties at senior level in the course of a year? If all types of games are included, I’d say a (very) conservative estimate would be 40 per county.
So if all 16 merged, 40x15 or 600 players would be denied the chance to play intercounty football every year. That would only be the beginning. Where you now have 16 senior clubs championships, you’d only have one. Assloads of senior clubs would have to amalgamate, go out of existence or downgrade.
Imagine the domino effect on clubs of lesser status!
You’d have far bigger, richer and better organised clubs but only a fraction of the number we have at present and given that they’d have to draw their memberships from a wide area so intimate contact with small local communities would be severed.
If if you somehow managed to effect this super merger and all the consequent changes, you’d still face one huge disadvantage- those counties are spread throughout the country while all of Dublin’s population and resources, (40% of the republic’s total according to Simon Coveney earlier this year) are concentrated in the third smallest county in the country.
So, all in all, any side capable of going toe to toe with Dublin doesn’t exist right now

So how come Dublin only won 1 All Ireland in the nearly 30 years between the last one of the Heffo era in '83 & Gilroys in 2011? That is 1 paltry All Ireland in nearly three decades. All your CSO stats about population were as true then, as they are now. Explain that one then..
Thought we had gone through this in detail before but, in any event, here is my take on what the difference is.In short it comes down to money, pure and simple.
Dublin has lots more of it than any other county in the land , even on a pro rata basis.
Of the total development funding dished out be the GAA, Dublin gets by far the greatest percentage.
Again, this has been done to death on a number of threads. On page two of the Money, Dublin and the GAA thread, you ill find an infographic detailing the total amount of money given out by the GAA in the period 2010-2014. The amount shown is what was given per registered player.
Dublin got €247 while Mayo got €22 and Galway got only €15. If you google gaa development funds, you’ll get plenty of info on the subject so, like the stats I gave, the figures are in the public domain.All in all, Dublin got 47% of the total handed out and you’ll find that
here or
here and in numerous other sources as well.
Given the marketability of the Dublin brand and the size of the potential market for sponsors Dublin has not problem getting a long, long list of sponsors, sorry “partners.”
So, the Dublin panel and management are given top of the range Suburu cars every year whereas Roscommon have to make do with a (by now) second hand bus donate by a wealthy supporter some years ago.
As it takes serious money to pay for the services of nutritionists, physiotherapists, physiotherapists and the likes not to mention renting centres of excellence and the likes, Dublin are way out in front of the rest.
Added to all that, Dublin has a number of very competent, hard-working individuals on the county board and down the line and are backed up by dozens od ex-players and other dedicated volunteers so there is a supremely well-organised development structure there that no other country can hope to match.
Around 2010, after the senior team got hockeyed by Meath in a Leinster semi ( think it was 5-9 to 0-13 points) the CB decided enough was enough and had a comprehensive plan of action drawn up and submitted it to CC, looking for funding. This was the Blue Wave initiative nd if you haven’t heard of it, google for it.
This was the prime reason for Dublin getting the lion’s shared of the games development kitty.
Finally, because of their new development structures they happen to have a lot of very talented young footballers putting pressure all the time on the already established players so the competition will always be keen for places on the team so don’t expect  the Dubs to slacken off any time so and decide that enough is enough.

They will always be there ot thereabouts until the social and economic structure of the country undergoes massive change. Don’t hold your breath waiting for this to happen.

And that, yer honour, is my best shot and I don’t intend returning to this subject any time soon.

Which young players are you referring to?
Well, you have Howard this year, O’Callaghan last year and Costello th year before that plus Kilkenny the year before that again.  And they are only a few of those who have forced their way into contention since Dublin began to gather momentum from 2011 onwards.
Then you have the likes of Brian Fenton who was discovered while playing for a junior club but the odds are that he would never have been heard of ten years or even five earlier.
Same can be said about Lowndes, Murchan, Small, Scully to name a few. If Dublin weren’t  actively scouting for players with potential no matter if they came up through underage ranks or not, they wouldn’t now be able to field at least two top class sides.
I think the vital difference between Mayo and The Dubs in recent years was that Dublin had a bench where everyone would get a game on any side in the country whereas with Mayo it’s been a case of all fur coats and no knickers. Apart from their first 15, they had very few on the bench to compare with Dublin’s reserves.
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Hound

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2018, 09:58:54 AM »
Well, you have Howard this year, O’Callaghan last year and Costello th year before that plus Kilkenny the year before that again.  And they are only a few of those who have forced their way into contention since Dublin began to gather momentum from 2011 onwards.
Then you have the likes of Brian Fenton who was discovered while playing for a junior club but the odds are that he would never have been heard of ten years or even five earlier.
Same can be said about Lowndes, Murchan, Small, Scully to name a few. If Dublin weren’t  actively scouting for players with potential no matter if they came up through underage ranks or not, they wouldn’t now be able to field at least two top class sides.
I think the vital difference between Mayo and The Dubs in recent years was that Dublin had a bench where everyone would get a game on any side in the country whereas with Mayo it’s been a case of all fur coats and no knickers. Apart from their first 15, they had very few on the bench to compare with Dublin’s reserves.
Fenton plays for Raheny who've been senior since around the late 90s. Actually when Ciaran Whelan debuted for the Dubs, he was playing for Raheny who were intermediate at the time.

Fenton was stand out from a young age, but suffered injuries in his late teens so missed a lot of football between the ages of 18-20.

Almost impossible to get on the Dublin panel these days, if you weren't playing Dubs minor/U20. There are some given a chance every year during the O'Byrne Cup, but very few make it as the chances given are very limited. Scully the most recent to come that route, but he had played minor and U21 for the Dubs before not initially making the cut when it came to senior.

Gael85

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2018, 03:52:33 PM »
Around 2010, after the senior team got hockeyed by Meath in a Leinster semi ( think it was 5-9 to 0-13 points) the CB decided enough was enough and had a comprehensive plan of action drawn up and submitted it to CC, looking for funding. This was the Blue Wave initiative nd if you haven’t heard of it, google for it.
This was the prime reason for Dublin getting the lion’s shared of the games development kitty.
Finally, because of their new development structures they happen to have a lot of very talented young footballers putting pressure all the time on the already established players so the competition will always be keen for places on the team so don’t expect  the Dubs to slacken off any time so and decide that enough is enough.

They will always be there ot thereabouts until the social and economic structure of the country undergoes massive change. Don’t hold your breath waiting for this to happen.

And that, yer honour, is my best shot and I don’t intend returning to this subject any time soon.
[/quote]

Which young players are you referring to?
[/quote]
Well, you have Howard this year, O’Callaghan last year and Costello th year before that plus Kilkenny the year before that again.  And they are only a few of those who have forced their way into contention since Dublin began to gather momentum from 2011 onwards.
Then you have the likes of Brian Fenton who was discovered while playing for a junior club but the odds are that he would never have been heard of ten years or even five earlier.
Same can be said about Lowndes, Murchan, Small, Scully to name a few. If Dublin weren’t  actively scouting for players with potential no matter if they came up through underage ranks or not, they wouldn’t now be able to field at least two top class sides.
I think the vital difference between Mayo and The Dubs in recent years was that Dublin had a bench where everyone would get a game on any side in the country whereas with Mayo it’s been a case of all fur coats and no knickers. Apart from their first 15, they had very few on the bench to compare with Dublin’s reserves.
[/quote]

The Blue Wave was proposed in 2011 after Dublin All Ireland win so players above were already on Dublin radar. Kilkenny,Small,McCaffrey and Costello were only minor team that year. David Byrne, Scully and Lowndes were on minor team 2011 and 12. O'Callaghan, Howard and Murchan would have on u15/16 development squads at time. Brian Fenton was on development squads when younger but missed out minor team in 2011 due to injury. His club form with Raheny and playing Sigerson Cup with DCU brought him into contention with Dublin 21s. Dublin have used developments squads since 1998 when the copied what Laois were doing at the time.


Lar Naparka

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Re: DUBLIN V REST OF IRELAND
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2018, 11:11:02 PM »
Well, you have Howard this year, O’Callaghan last year and Costello th year before that plus Kilkenny the year before that again.  And they are only a few of those who have forced their way into contention since Dublin began to gather momentum from 2011 onwards.
Then you have the likes of Brian Fenton who was discovered while playing for a junior club but the odds are that he would never have been heard of ten years or even five earlier.
Same can be said about Lowndes, Murchan, Small, Scully to name a few. If Dublin weren’t  actively scouting for players with potential no matter if they came up through underage ranks or not, they wouldn’t now be able to field at least two top class sides.
I think the vital difference between Mayo and The Dubs in recent years was that Dublin had a bench where everyone would get a game on any side in the country whereas with Mayo it’s been a case of all fur coats and no knickers. Apart from their first 15, they had very few on the bench to compare with Dublin’s reserves.
Fenton plays for Raheny who've been senior since around the late 90s. Actually when Ciaran Whelan debuted for the Dubs, he was playing for Raheny who were intermediate at the time.

Fenton was stand out from a young age, but suffered injuries in his late teens so missed a lot of football between the ages of 18-20.

Almost impossible to get on the Dublin panel these days, if you weren't playing Dubs minor/U20. There are some given a chance every year during the O'Byrne Cup, but very few make it as the chances given are very limited. Scully the most recent to come that route, but he had played minor and U21 for the Dubs before not initially making the cut when it came to senior.
Some time ago in the Money, Dublin and the GAA thread, I said something like the major cornerstone of Dublin’s success was the steady stream of talented youngsters who would always be attempting to break into the senior side and as a result, those already there would always be under pressure to perform at their best all of the time or suffer the consequences- or something convoluted like that.
One of the Dub posters, noted for stirring it most of the time. Retorted by asking me what about Brian Fenton then who was found playing with a junior side in Raheny  and didn’t play underage football of any sort.
Like an eejit I took him at his word even though I had never heard of a junior clubb in Rahenry and I live about two miles from the centre of the village. A couple of years ago when the Dubs’ winning streak was getting going, one of the lines being spun by some who supported the status quo was that Dublin’s success could be attributed to the sheer class of the players on the team at the time and that when the likes of Berno and Dermo and Clucko and the rest hung up their boots, Dublin would sink back to the level of their competitors once again.  A temporary spike in form- nothing permanent and therefore nothing to get alarmed about.
It was bullshine then and it’s more of the same now. As long as the AI series has any meaning or relevance,the Dubs will be there or thereabouts.
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