Author Topic: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball  (Read 13079 times)

Denn Forever

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #285 on: August 08, 2018, 12:43:41 PM »
Have the game played with Hurling refs. 
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

Jinxy

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #286 on: August 28, 2018, 01:24:40 PM »
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1034342714937143296

Jim McGuinness: The way to change and improve Gaelic football is simple and it can be achieved by its custodians with the stroke of a pen. You simply change the rules to reintroduce the best qualities of the sport.

Behind the paywall so can't read it though.
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Hound

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #287 on: August 28, 2018, 02:01:14 PM »
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1034342714937143296

Jim McGuinness: The way to change and improve Gaelic football is simple and it can be achieved by its custodians with the stroke of a pen. You simply change the rules to reintroduce the best qualities of the sport.

Behind the paywall so can't read it though.
If you cross the opponent's 65, you can't go back across it again
Must have 4 players inside opponents 65 at all times
2 points for scores outside the 45 (from play only)

Disagrees about limiting handpasses
Disagrees about more marks (too much of an advatange for the big forwards versus the Gooch/Canavan types

Jinxy

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #288 on: August 28, 2018, 02:05:27 PM »
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1034342714937143296

Jim McGuinness: The way to change and improve Gaelic football is simple and it can be achieved by its custodians with the stroke of a pen. You simply change the rules to reintroduce the best qualities of the sport.

Behind the paywall so can't read it though.
If you cross the opponent's 65, you can't go back across it again
Must have 4 players inside opponents 65 at all times
2 points for scores outside the 45 (from play only)

Disagrees about limiting handpasses
Disagrees about more marks (too much of an advatange for the big forwards versus the Gooch/Canavan types

I like this idea.
In general I'm in favour of incentivising positive play, moreso than disincentivising negative play.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Maiden1

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #289 on: August 28, 2018, 02:23:12 PM »
https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1034342714937143296

Jim McGuinness: The way to change and improve Gaelic football is simple and it can be achieved by its custodians with the stroke of a pen. You simply change the rules to reintroduce the best qualities of the sport.

Behind the paywall so can't read it though.
If you cross the opponent's 65, you can't go back across it again
Must have 4 players inside opponents 65 at all times
2 points for scores outside the 45 (from play only)

Disagrees about limiting handpasses
Disagrees about more marks (too much of an advatange for the big forwards versus the Gooch/Canavan types

I like this idea.
In general I'm in favour of incentivising positive play, moreso than disincentivising negative play.
4 players have to stay in own half would make a huge difference.  As long as the opposition also had to keep at least 4 people back in defense, otherwise if a team are a couple down going into injury time they could have all out 15 in attack and the other team have 4 players stuck at the half way line.  It would help a team attack as well to have 4 forwards when they they turned the ball over.
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CJ2017

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #290 on: August 28, 2018, 02:23:35 PM »
Re Colm Parkinson and the offensive mark inside the 21 yard line, he's not the only one in favour of it.


I read an interesting article on the rte website there quoting Kieran McGeeney who seems to in favour of it too.

"McGeeney would like a loosening of restrictions around the tackle and agrees with his former team-mate O'Rourke that the offensive mark inside the '45 could help bring back the beloved kickpass"

not sure about it leading too much of an advantage for the big forwards versus the Gooch/Canavan types
small forwards do operate and flourish throughout the AFL

by the way if we had two refs you could probably keep track of counted hand passes, players in halves etc if you wanted.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2018/0823/987141-the-battle-for-the-soul-of-gaelic-football/
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 02:25:51 PM by CJ2017 »

Hound

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #291 on: August 28, 2018, 02:35:07 PM »
Kieran Donaghy (on Parkinson's podcast) in favour of:

- Offensive mark

- Replacement of black card with free brought forward 50 yards. This includes not bothering to take name of player who committed the foul (only wastes time and allows defense to reorganise, plus the 50 yards is punishment enough). And if the cynical foul took place anywhere inside the 21, then it's a penalty.

Not sure about the offensive mark myself. I wouldn't be long getting sick of watching O'Gara making great catches, then kicking the ball a mile wide!

50 yard idea is from Aussie Rules. I haven't seen it in practice, but Donaghy was very keen on it. Sounds a bit far. Maybe 30 yards, with proviso that the free has to be taken out of the hands, to keep things moving.

It was definitely a good point he made that for a team defending a lead late on, it actual benefits them to receive cards as it slows the game down further.

Jinxy

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #292 on: August 28, 2018, 02:40:59 PM »
Players will happily take black cards to close out a game.
They are deliberately trying to prevent the other team moving up the field into a scoring position.
If you punish these specific infringements by bringing the ball up for a set shot in a scoring position, it defeats the purpose of committing the foul in the first place.
Plus, the defending team now have to win their own re-start after the kick is taken.
I think a set-shot, off the ground, from the 45m line is the proportionate response to a cynical foul.
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TabClear

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #293 on: August 28, 2018, 03:12:40 PM »
Kieran Donaghy (on Parkinson's podcast) in favour of:

- Offensive mark

- Replacement of black card with free brought forward 50 yards. This includes not bothering to take name of player who committed the foul (only wastes time and allows defense to reorganise, plus the 50 yards is punishment enough). And if the cynical foul took place anywhere inside the 21, then it's a penalty.

Not sure about the offensive mark myself. I wouldn't be long getting sick of watching O'Gara making great catches, then kicking the ball a mile wide!

50 yard idea is from Aussie Rules. I haven't seen it in practice, but Donaghy was very keen on it. Sounds a bit far. Maybe 30 yards, with proviso that the free has to be taken out of the hands, to keep things moving.

It was definitely a good point he made that for a team defending a lead late on, it actual benefits them to receive cards as it slows the game down further.

Like this idea. Works really well in Aussie Rules albeit a bigger pitch. 50 yard penalties in AFL are typically for either late hits in a marking contest or holding a player who has marked/running across the "Mark"/kicking ball away after a free. Effectively penalises tactics that a team might use to slow down the team with the ball and so it encourages quick ball movement. No issue with the offensive mark either as it encourages quick ball into the forward.

I would be a fan  of extending the advantage rule as well so that the ref can whistle for a foul but the fouled player has the option of playing on. i.e. he can decide to fist pass, take a solo etc. This does not give the offending team time to get back in position etc after a cynical foul.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 03:18:07 PM by TabClear »

Jayop

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #294 on: August 28, 2018, 03:47:28 PM »
4 players have to stay in own half would make a huge difference.  As long as the opposition also had to keep at least 4 people back in defense, otherwise if a team are a couple down going into injury time they could have all out 15 in attack and the other team have 4 players stuck at the half way line.  It would help a team attack as well to have 4 forwards when they they turned the ball over.

I disagree with this. Let teams attack with 15 and leave 4 men free if they want to take that gamble. Would also make it easier to ref if all he has to mind is 8 players over 16 to keep in the right area. If you have 4 designated forwards have them wear a bib or something to designate they're one of the players to stay forward. The manager can rotate these bibs during a break of play.

Hound

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #295 on: August 28, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
4 players have to stay in own half would make a huge difference.  As long as the opposition also had to keep at least 4 people back in defense, otherwise if a team are a couple down going into injury time they could have all out 15 in attack and the other team have 4 players stuck at the half way line.  It would help a team attack as well to have 4 forwards when they they turned the ball over.

I disagree with this. Let teams attack with 15 and leave 4 men free if they want to take that gamble. Would also make it easier to ref if all he has to mind is 8 players over 16 to keep in the right area. If you have 4 designated forwards have them wear a bib or something to designate they're one of the players to stay forward. The manager can rotate these bibs during a break of play.
Agree with that jayop. Would be good craic if a team left 2 or 3 marking 4, although would be a rare a team would be brave enough.

Some class of illumunious armband for the 4 designated attackers. Something a bit bigger than the captain's armband in soccer.

Jayop

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #296 on: August 28, 2018, 04:39:26 PM »
Yep, an armband or something that would be easy to take off and hand to another player if they'removing into the forwards would make it pure easy to see.

I've no problem with a team chasing a game going balls out and leaving 4 v 2 at the back. In fact I'd expect it to happen most games near the end of there's a team a few points behind. You're as well being beat by 5 as by 2.

cjx

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #297 on: August 28, 2018, 06:11:42 PM »
This is getting very complicated Chinese Jimmy McGuinness's 'ideas'
would make the game impossible to ref (think Junior B league game in February)
Suggestions:
1 A 2 min shot-clock 2nd half (1 min final added time and ET) guided by special stopwatch
( as well as score and wide kick from outside 45 landing/ touched in large rectangle counts as a shot.) with technology we can design a special GAA stopwatch plus plus to help refs with shot clocks etc)
2 Ban handpass only closed fist pass (as in 1960s) and kick pass (fist less reliable so encourages kick - hurling is a great game cos ball is available not buried in someone's gut all changes must encourage ball availability)
3 Mark for all frees sidelines and kickouts
4 All frees for personal fouls (inc. all black & red offences that includes shepherding/ 3rd man tackling in both offence and defence and steps holding time rules which must be more strictly enforced I believe) from opponent's 20m line
5 Move all kick-outs back to small rectangle ( scare keepers into longer kick-outs)
6 Timekeeper for County matches and County Champ finals. (Works well in 'ladies' football relieves refs of some duties THAT IS ESSENTIAL
Lots to learn from women's game surpasses men's game in so many ways now and ovetaling it fast )

Banning backpassing impossible to enforce in such bog (freudian slip meant big) pitches and 30 players OK for small basketball
We have generally bad refs often spineless linesmen and
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil umpires. All these folk need rules and technology where feasible to take max. duties away from them and I believe what I have here would help a lot and free up football into a much more open game

cjx

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #298 on: August 28, 2018, 06:21:40 PM »
4 20m free rule to apply for 2nd half on

lenny

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #299 on: August 28, 2018, 08:32:54 PM »
Players will happily take black cards to close out a game.
They are deliberately trying to prevent the other team moving up the field into a scoring position.
If you punish these specific infringements by bringing the ball up for a set shot in a scoring position, it defeats the purpose of committing the foul in the first place.
Plus, the defending team now have to win their own re-start after the kick is taken.
I think a set-shot, off the ground, from the 45m line is the proportionate response to a cynical foul.

From the 13m or 20m line would be a better deterrent against cynical play. Penalty if it denies a goal scoring chance. Allowing more robust tackles would give defenders a chance to dispossess forwards without requiring the help of 3 or 4 teammates. Defining the tackle and improving it could be a big help in improving the game.