Author Topic: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball  (Read 13123 times)

cjx

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Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« on: July 15, 2018, 11:55:14 PM »
Keep Ball as Dublin played it yesterday (14/7) will put so many off Gaelic Football and is most cynical
Needs a rule change to combat/reduce it.

What about a free to other side (from centre line) if team passes ball into own half twice during a period of continuous possession.

That would force the team playing keep ball to think more and confusion might break it up
or
would force a team to stay forward
or
encourage the team without the ball to press up.

Any thoughts or better ideas?



hardstation

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2018, 11:59:21 PM »
Stop. Just stop.


From the Bunker

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 11:59:39 PM »
I think we have to many confusing rules already.

I think that there is a new rule created every year to curtail cute coaching.

I think if your team is good enough they will find a way.

mrdeeds

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 12:00:58 AM »
Then they just wouldn't cross half way line. Also heard about limiting hand passes before you have to kick. Ever do this in a training drill? You get a three yard kick pass. The kick and catch is not coming back and was terrible to watch too. Perhaps the team losing could try and go get the ball might be a help.

Jinxy

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 12:02:15 AM »
Welcome to gaaboard, CJX.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

thewobbler

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 12:41:28 AM »
I’m not one for rule changes.... but there’s a lot of merit in preventing teams from passing the ball back into their own half.

By the way, making it more complex like as in “no more than twice in one phase” is unnecessary.

I think we can all agree that watching teams endlessly recycle the ball around own half is most numbing form of football. I’d think we can mostly agree that it’s used as a tactic by teams in control of the game to draw opponents out of their packed defence. So the former issue needs a disincentive and the latter needs an incentive.

I’d expect that any blanket defence which knows their reward for sending 4 men forward to block off easy routes is that their opponents will cross the halfway line, then are likely to commit those 4 men. For once you get your opponents over halfway, you would regain a lot of the control. People wondering why Donegal didn’t push up on Dublin on saturday are forgetting that Dublin were going 80 yards forward then 80 yards back. Your front 4-6 players effectively have to track the entire pitch to close off all the routes. It’s not possible to sustain that level of chasing for an entire quarter of football, which was what Dublin were challenging them to do.

It has to be worth experimenting with in a competition.

I can’t see the downside in it myself, and normally I can find a downside to any rule change.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 12:43:37 AM by thewobbler »

Jell 0 Biafra

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 01:49:18 AM »
Are the four lads allowed to cross back into their own half once the ball does? Because that's just giving them, bt means of a rule change, what they wanted and couldn't achieve: the attacking team forced into a smaller area of the pitch, and thus easier to dispossess.

Jell 0 Biafra

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 02:01:42 AM »
I think we're seeing an early glimpse of a real weakness in the current competition structure. You have a good side that is very strong in defence, playing a side that they're not likely to beat. But because it's a league setup, and they'd give themselves a fair chance of winning the other two games, it's imperative that they don't get hammered.  So despite an imminent loss, there is no incentive for them to try to win if doing so risks a tanking. Imagine how the last ten minutes might have gone if Donegal had been facing exit from the tournament.

So, is it a rule change thats needed, or a return to qf knockout?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:07:41 AM by Jell 0 Biafra »

sligoman2

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 02:55:19 AM »
I think football is in a very bad place at the moment.  4  very poor games this weekend from an entertainment point of view.  Dublin just as guilty.  I believe that once you get into your opponents half you can’t go back to your own half at all until the ball goes out of play.  I know we have talked about this before but this weekend for me showed that something needs to be done, I turned off the football twice this weekend to watch the hurling and the World Cup and I doubt I’m the only one.  The entertainment is disappearing at the expense of stats, blankets and keep ball.  A very sad state for a once proud and entertaining game.  I don’t even know if I will watch the games next week as I’m not enjoying it at all.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

seafoid

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 08:24:35 AM »
Instead of Jeff and Kammy or Arry and Gianluca AIB should get in 2 rugby league coaches to have a look at the game and suggest ways to fix it. It is all about the rules of the game and how they are applied.
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thewobbler

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 08:50:11 AM »
Are the four lads allowed to cross back into their own half once the ball does? Because that's just giving them, bt means of a rule change, what they wanted and couldn't achieve: the attacking team forced into a smaller area of the pitch, and thus easier to dispossess.
I’m only using 4 as a judicial number. Teams could commit as many players as they like, but whereas now they send in a couple who get jaded by the 3rd time the ball is kicked over their head, with this rule change, one man on the keeper and three along the 21 would close all backward channels, meaning another 3 men around the halfway line is all it would take to shepherd opponents out.

By the way, Dublin proved on Saturday how important it is to make it easier to force a dispossession in football. One of the things I’ve always preferred in football to hurling is that there is a greater reward for possession over territory, but there is genuinely no skill and therefore no entertainment in handpasaing back and forwards across an empty expanse. It’s just a detriment to the game.


highorlow

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 09:04:26 AM »
It's very simple. A shot clock like basketball. In this article you could replace basketball with gaelic football.


24-Second Clock Revived the Game

By Alex Sachare
Professional basketball was struggling in the early 1950s, and one look at what was taking place on the court explained why. The game was dull, all too often played at a snail’s pace with one team opening up a lead and freezing the ball until time ran out. The only thing the trailing team could do was foul, thus games became rough, ragged, free throw-shooting contests.
“That was the way the game was played — get a lead and put the ball in the icebox,” said Bob Cousy of the Boston Celtics, one of the game’s best ballhandling guards. “Teams literally started sitting on the ball in the third quarter. Coaches are conservative by nature, and it didn’t make much sense to play a wide-open game. We’d get a lead, and you’d see good ol’ No. 14 doing his tricks out there.”

If not Cousy, who was “good ol’ No. 14,” then it would be one of the other premier guards of that era like Dick McGuire, Slater Martin, Bob Davies or Andy Phillip, who would dribble until they were fouled, and the parade from one free throw line to the other would begin.

“The game had become a stalling game,” Danny Biasone, owner of the Syracuse Nationals, said before his death in 1992. “A team would get ahead, even in the first half, and it would go into a stall. The other team would keep fouling, and it got to be a constant parade to the foul line. Boy, was it dull!”

Dull was the last thing NBA moguls wanted when the league was still in its infancy, struggling for a place on the American sports scene. But that’s what it was:

On November 22, 1950, the Fort Wayne Pistons edged the Minneapolis Lakers 19-18 in a game where the teams scored a total of eight baskets.
Three years later, 106 fouls were called and 128 free throws shot in a playoff game between Boston and Syracuse. Cousy scored 30 points from the foul line alone.
In 1954, Syracuse beat New York 75-69 in another playoff horror show where free throws outnumbered baskets 75-34.
“If you’re a promoter, that won’t do,” Biasone said. “You’ve got to have offense, because offense excites people.”

Something drastic was called for, and Biasone knew what it was. “We needed a time element in our game,” he said. “Other sports had limits — in baseball you get three outs to score, in football you must make 10 yards in four downs or you lose the ball. But in basketball, if you had the lead and a good ballhandler, you could play around all night.”

Biasone’s idea was a shot clock, giving a team 24 seconds to attempt a shot or else lose possession of the ball. To deal with the matter of excessive fouling, the Board of Governors also adopted a rule limiting the number of fouls per team per quarter, with each foul became a shooting foul after the limit was reached. The two rules complemented each other perfectly.

The 24-second shot clock made an immediate impact. In 1954-55, its first season, NBA teams averaged 93.1 points, an increase of 13.6 points over the previous season. The Boston Celtics became the first team in NBA history to average more than 100 points per game for a season, and three years later, every team did it.

“Pro basketball would not have survived without a clock,” said Biasone.

Others agreed. “The adoption of the clock was the most important event in the NBA,” said Maurice Podoloff, the NBA’s president, while longtime Celtics coach and executive Red Auerbach called it “the single most important rule change in the last 50 years.”

The 24-second clock was the most dramatic change in a league where the rules are constantly undergoing fine-tuning, but only rarely seeing major changes. When the NBA’s predecessor, the Basketball Association of America, was formed in 1946, its founders adopted the college rules of the day, but changed the length of games from two 20-minute halves to four 12-minute quarters in order to give the fans more for their money. Two months into the inaugural season, the league made another change, banning zone defenses. Prohibitions against what are now termed “illegal defenses” have been on the books ever since.

Most of the game’s dimensions have remained the same — the height of the basket is 10 feet, the foul line is 15 feet away from the backboard, the rim is 18 inches in diameter, the ball exactly half that. Courts differed slightly in size in the league’s early years as teams played in whatever buildings were available; in today’s modern arenas, every court measures 50 x 94 feet.

The supreme skills of two of the NBA’s greatest big men did force changes in the dimensions of the foul lane. The width of the lane was doubled from six to 12 feet in 1951 in an effort to limit the dominance of George Mikan; more than a decade later it was further widened to 16 feet in an attempt to contain Wilt Chamberlain. Both players proved skillful enough to adapt their games to the changes, and they continued to be dominant forces in their eras.






The Hill is Blue

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 09:08:50 AM »
Think about it lads, this is just another suggestion to try to beat Dublin without having to match them in terms of footballing quality. Awhile back the focus was on trying to concoct rules to disrupt Stephen Cluxton’s kick-outs. One of the changes brought in to try to stymie Cluxton was the introduction of the “mark” - we all saw how that worked last Saturday with Dublin winning most of the long kick-outs even those from the Donegal keeper.

There’s been much talk about the standard of football in the Dublin/Donegal game. Now I wonder if that is simply down to the fact that Dublin won again. If Donegal had won while holding on to the ball during the last few minutes of the game it would be talked about now as the game of the decade.
I remember Dublin City in the Rare Old Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T7OaDDR7i8

thewobbler

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 09:09:36 AM »
The problem with a shot clock is that an extra official therefore is required at every match. I’m not so sure any club would want another few thousand per year in referee fees.

highorlow

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Re: Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 09:12:16 AM »
Quote
The problem with a shot clock is that an extra official therefore is required at every match. I’m not so sure any club would want another few thousand per year in referee fees.

The ref wears watchs I believe.

I see the paranoid Dub is on here having a go. This is not about Dublin.