Author Topic: Row in Mayo LGFA  (Read 43630 times)

Jinxy

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #450 on: September 19, 2018, 12:36:50 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

sid waddell

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #451 on: September 19, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »
And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

But your only inclined to believe a minority of those players and not the majority?

Hard to see you as anything but the village contrary clown.
Some players didn't have issues. Good for them.

How they can speak on behalf of those who so obviously did have issues?

Because that's what they are doing.

The environment is by its nature a shared one - team sport = shared environment.

Thus, the players who stayed are in every bit as good a position to comment on the team environment as those who attempted mutiny.
They're commenting on things they don't know about because they didn't experience them.

In other words: "I'm alright, Jack".

It's a complete oxymoron. You can't speak for people who have a different experience to you.

dublin7

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #452 on: September 19, 2018, 12:47:01 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

Sid just out of interest, what are you assessing PL's management on. Is it the statement from the girls that left the panel?
The only reason I ask is that you see 100% that the problems were because of PL's management and not with the girls.
i) Failing to respect players = failure of management
ii) Failure to create a happy atmosphere within the squad = failure of management
iii) Failure to put the best team on the pitch = failure of management
iv) Having 12 players quit the squad = failure of management
v) Results - the team failed badly in the championship = failure of management
vi) Completely dividing Mayo women's football to the point where Mayo cannot field their best team as long he continues = failure of management

A total failure whatever way you look at it.

He hasn't divided mayo fooball. It's Carnacon players/selector who are against him. All the other players/clubs/co. board support and/or have no issue him and before you say it, I don't believe that's because they're all bitter and jealous in relation to Carnacon's success. It's not some big conspiracy like you claim.

Players also have to resepct the manager. Go to your boss and tell him/her you want to get a consulant in as you don't think he/she is good enough to do their job. See how that works out for you. If I was the manager I'd have dropped her from the panel that night and she wouldn't have the chance to walk out.
You haven't provided anything there bar shouting "it's their fault".

In modern sport, managers cannot afford to simply dismiss the opinions of players. That management style belongs to a bygone era. Those that do are stupid and those that do fail. As we've seen here.

I find it inexplicable how anybody can defend Carnacon being thrown out of the championship and the suspension of their players. No player is under any obligation to play county football under threat of expulsion and/or suspension.

It's actually the most disgusting thing about the whole story.

The captain wanted to bring in a coach of her own. How can you defend that? I understand perfectly that players/management need to work together but even you must think that's a step too far.

You also have failed to comment on the Carnacon players pressuring other players to quit the panel to force out the manager just days before a big game. That to me is disgusting thing to do to a teammate.

trueblue1234

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #453 on: September 19, 2018, 12:48:46 PM »
And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

But your only inclined to believe a minority of those players and not the majority?

Hard to see you as anything but the village contrary clown.
Some players didn't have issues. Good for them.

How they can speak on behalf of those who so obviously did have issues?

Because that's what they are doing.

The environment is by its nature a shared one - team sport = shared environment.

Thus, the players who stayed are in every bit as good a position to comment on the team environment as those who attempted mutiny.
They're commenting on things they don't know about because they didn't experience them.

In other words: "I'm alright, Jack".

It's a complete oxymoron. You can't speak for people who have a different experience to you.

But it looks like you are taking the word of the woman who left the panel as accurate. Of course they are going to paint that picture. I'm still at odds as to why you think their version of what happened is more accurate than the girls who stayed or the managers?
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Kickham csc

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #454 on: September 19, 2018, 12:56:06 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

Sid just out of interest, what are you assessing PL's management on. Is it the statement from the girls that left the panel?
The only reason I ask is that you see 100% that the problems were because of PL's management and not with the girls.
i) Failing to respect players = failure of management
ii) Failure to create a happy atmosphere within the squad = failure of management
iii) Failure to put the best team on the pitch = failure of management
iv) Having 12 players quit the squad = failure of management
v) Results - the team failed badly in the championship = failure of management
vi) Completely dividing Mayo women's football to the point where Mayo cannot field their best team as long he continues = failure of management

A total failure whatever way you look at it.

He hasn't divided mayo fooball. It's Carnacon players/selector who are against him. All the other players/clubs/co. board support and/or have no issue him and before you say it, I don't believe that's because they're all bitter and jealous in relation to Carnacon's success. It's not some big conspiracy like you claim.

Players also have to resepct the manager. Go to your boss and tell him/her you want to get a consulant in as you don't think he/she is good enough to do their job. See how that works out for you. If I was the manager I'd have dropped her from the panel that night and she wouldn't have the chance to walk out.
You haven't provided anything there bar shouting "it's their fault".

In modern sport, managers cannot afford to simply dismiss the opinions of players. That management style belongs to a bygone era. Those that do are stupid and those that do fail. As we've seen here.

I find it inexplicable how anybody can defend Carnacon being thrown out of the championship and the suspension of their players. No player is under any obligation to play county football under threat of expulsion and/or suspension.

It's actually the most disgusting thing about the whole story.

The captain wanted to bring in a coach of her own. How can you defend that? I understand perfectly that players/management need to work together but even you must think that's a step too far.

You also have failed to comment on the Carnacon players pressuring other players to quit the panel to force out the manager just days before a big game. That to me is disgusting thing to do to a teammate.

This is the critical piece in all this.

If true then the punishment determined by the county board has some credence. I mentioned earlier in this topic, the rules in place are to prevent this situation, i.e. if a club organizes a boycott then they will be penalised.

The player issue is a separate topic. If players wanted to withdraw from the squad, so be it. But if they organized a campaign to pressurize the "Remainers", then they have stepped over the line and shouldn't be surprized when the board pushes back.

BTW, they should be banned for sheer stupidity...... text messages, they needed a lesson on evidence trails, and how to avoid them

sid waddell

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #455 on: September 19, 2018, 12:59:52 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.


dublin7

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #456 on: September 19, 2018, 01:06:37 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.

There's not widespread dissatisfaction. Its players and selector from 1 club. Why do you deliberately ignore actions and just continuously demand the manager be sacked/resign? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against him for some reason that can't be just managing the mayo ladies football team

sid waddell

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #457 on: September 19, 2018, 01:10:14 PM »
And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

But your only inclined to believe a minority of those players and not the majority?

Hard to see you as anything but the village contrary clown.
Some players didn't have issues. Good for them.

How they can speak on behalf of those who so obviously did have issues?

Because that's what they are doing.

The environment is by its nature a shared one - team sport = shared environment.

Thus, the players who stayed are in every bit as good a position to comment on the team environment as those who attempted mutiny.
They're commenting on things they don't know about because they didn't experience them.

In other words: "I'm alright, Jack".

It's a complete oxymoron. You can't speak for people who have a different experience to you.

But it looks like you are taking the word of the woman who left the panel as accurate. Of course they are going to paint that picture. I'm still at odds as to why you think their version of what happened is more accurate than the girls who stayed or the managers?

People can look at things in different ways. There is no absolute truth here about who is right or wrong because what happened is a matter of personal interpretation.

The truth of the players who left the panel is clearly not the same as Leahy's truth.

What is an objective truth is that the grievances of the players are being casually treated as entirely illegitimate and dismissed out of hand by many people.

What is also an objective truth is that any manager who has 12 players pull out of a panel is failing in his job. The job of a manager is to manage players. Leahy clearly could not manage these players, key players without whom the team was badly weakened. It's staggering that anybody can see this as anything but a failure.






sid waddell

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #458 on: September 19, 2018, 01:12:06 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.

There's not widespread dissatisfaction. Its players and selector from 1 club. Why do you deliberately ignore actions and just continuously demand the manager be sacked/resign? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against him for some reason that can't be just managing the mayo ladies football team
Again, you repeat a lie.

And the notion that 12 players and two selectors pulling out is not evidence of widespread dissatisfaction is utterly laughable.

Kickham csc

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #459 on: September 19, 2018, 01:21:50 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.

But why was there widespread player dissatisfaction? That is a critical question

Was it that 1 or 2 players were unhappy because he was challenging them.
Were they unhappy because he is looking at long term plans and the need to blood new players, and they were the players that were going to be replaced?
Did the 12 players leave out of loyalty to player alliances?
Are the allegations legitimate or a case of the manager having "Hot Conversations" and the players not reacting well to it?
Was the manager incompetent (even though they have got to an All-Ireland and a league final in the past two years)
Does the manager have bad communication skills?
Did the manager put the players health at risk (or did he ruffle to many feathers)

At the moment I would be siding with the manager. Mainly due to the absolute mismanagement of the players who left.
Cora's interview was a disaster
The behind the scenes campaign to influence players
The changing narrative of the complaints. 

The "exitiers" need to do  a better job in spelling out their grievances, in a clear, precise and substantiated manor, before I start to lean towards  their side of the situation

tippabu

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #460 on: September 19, 2018, 01:26:47 PM »
Any chance we could maybe quote the last post from these ones that are being quoted now to tidy things up a wee bit?

Captain Obvious

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #461 on: September 19, 2018, 01:29:52 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.

But why was there widespread player dissatisfaction? That is a critical question

Was it that 1 or 2 players were unhappy because he was challenging them.
Were they unhappy because he is looking at long term plans and the need to blood new players, and they were the players that were going to be replaced?
Did the 12 players leave out of loyalty to player alliances?
Are the allegations legitimate or a case of the manager having "Hot Conversations" and the players not reacting well to it?
Was the manager incompetent (even though they have got to an All-Ireland and a league final in the past two years)
Does the manager have bad communication skills?
Did the manager put the players health at risk (or did he ruffle to many feathers)

At the moment I would be siding with the manager. Mainly due to the absolute mismanagement of the players who left.
Cora's interview was a disaster
The behind the scenes campaign to influence players
The changing narrative of the complaints. 

The "exitiers" need to do  a better job in spelling out their grievances, in a clear, precise and substantiated manor, before I start to lean towards  their side of the situation

That's a lot of quoting.

dublin7

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #462 on: September 19, 2018, 01:30:03 PM »

It's actually incredible that this has to be answered.

Because half the panel won't play for him and because Mayo women's football will be hopelessly and bitterly divided going forward. How will that benefit women's football in Mayo?

A new manager would at least give the team the chance to move forward. As it is, Leahys' position is untenable.

Leahy is in the exactly same position as Mickey Moran, Gerald McCarthy, Teddy Holland, Justin McCarthy, Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes and Anthony Cunningham were.

Most of those at least saw sense and stepped down sooner or later. Mickey Moran and Justin McCarthy didn't and tried to brazen it out. In neither case did things work out well.

So Peter Leahy resigns and this problem magically evaporates?

More than two thirds of the squad who backed him and "believe that no player welfare issues exist or have ever existed under the current management and categorically disagree with the statement issued in July by the individuals that departed the Mayo senior ladies panel regarding the welfare issues raised". He should just abandon those 26 players who called out the "failed coup" and backed him instead? I'm sure they'd appreciate being left in the lurch like that.

So say Leahy does resign and the best manager in the country is brought in, does he sit there with the threat of a coup hanging over him if he dares to drop certain players? Would those players be happy being benched by a new manager with excellent communication skills?

Look at the history of pervious Mayo managers and how they got on with that group. They had to bring in a priest to train them at one stage as nobody else would touch it. Those select few players are unmanageable, unless they are allowed to exert control themselves.

The evidence of 2017, when they reached the All-Ireland final, would suggest that that's utter balderdash.

The evidence of 2017 would suggest that those players were allowed to exert control. Did you watch the final? It was a joke how their star player carried on.
You have no evidence for that.

In fact throughout this thread there has been unsubstantiated statements, drunken pub level stuff used to try and vilify the players involved. Hearsay and conjecture, in other words.

The evidence is there that the players who walked out know what it takes to compete at the highest level, because they have done - within the last year.

The players that walked out made up the minority of the team that got to the final in 2017. Those who didn't walk out also know how to compete at that same level.

Do you know any ladies footballers from Mayo? I do, as I was in college with a number of them. The culture there has been toxic for the best part of a decade, if not longer. Numerous quality players have walked away from it. Numerous managers have quit after short tenure's. This is not a new development.
Again, more hearsay and conjecture.

Short management tenures are the default all over the GAA.

Can you tell me how Leahy's performance in the job has been in any way competent and why he should remain in the job?

It's not hearsay. As far back as 2010 Pat Costello resigned as manager only weeks before the championship began.

The statement read: ""At a meeting with the executive committee of the Mayo Ladies County Board on April 19, Pat Costello tendered his resignation as manager of the Mayo Ladies senior football team, stating that his position was no longer tenable due to him being constantly undermined by certain players within the panel."

Take your head out of the sand.

Give up Sid, you're being schooled

If indeed the setup has been toxic and star player lead, maybe this is Mayo ladies football 'rock bottom' and IF all sides can work through this (in private), this could be a real watershed moment.

Do Carnacon manage themselves? (half joking btw)

Can you tell me how on earth Mayo reached the 2017 final if the team was so unmanageable?

Do you consider the Mayo men's football team unmanageable too, given that they went on strike over what seemed like pretty tenuous issues?

Or is it just women who get tarred as "unmanageable"?

Just women? Behave Sid

And who's to say if Mayo had had a strong manager at the helm they wouldn't have won the final?

You seem to want to throw PL under the bus. From what I've read on hear from Mayo folk, the setup has been player lead, toxic for the best part of a decade, a big majority of the players want to keep the current management team as well as the Mayo CB. Something needs to change, and it's not the management team imo

Mayo performed to the limit of their ability last year. Dublin are a better team, they're the best team in the country by a distance.

The point as regards women is a serious one. There's a distinct tone of misogynism to a lot of the criticism, like a lot of men commenting here seem to be desperate to put a bunch of "uppity women" put back in their box.

There are clear double standards when it comes to women who won't accept being treated like shit by a dinosaur, compared to men.

And forgive me if I'm more inclined to believe players who have reached an All-Ireland final than a convicted fraudster.

I don't see how the response to this is any different than the response to the Holmes-Connelly heave, or the Cork Hurlers strike or any other player-driven revolt we have seen in the GAA to date.
These are divisive issues and people generally pick a side and fight their corner on that basis.
Look at the ongoing attention the O'Sheas, O'Connors, Andy Moran etc. get as a result of their perceived 'influence' on Mayo affairs.
Likewise Galway hurlers got plenty of flak for ousting Anthony Cunningham.
You referred to the attitude towards "uppity women", but I'd argue the phrase "uppity players" would be more accurate.
Rightly or wrongly, a significant number of GAA people adhere to the view that 'players play & managers manage'.
Could you imagine if we were talking about 'The Mayo Five' (as Jimmy Sloyan would call them) leaving the Mayo squad under the same circumstances as the ladies in question?
They would be hung, drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.
It'd make this affair look like a tea party.

Did many people seriously suggest that Holmes and Connelly, Cunningham, or Teddy Holland, Gerald McCarthy or Justin McCarthy should stay in their jobs when players withdrew their services?

Did many people seriously think that those county teams would benefit more from those managers staying in place for the following season than if they resigned and somebody else took over?

Justin McCarthy did stay on with a scab team in 2010. They were beaten by massive scorelines for the whole of 2010 in front of a few men and their dogs. How on earth did that benefit Limerick hurling?

Compare that to 2011 when Donal O'Grady had taken over with the backing of the players and Limerick put in some very creditable performances and started to build towards a Munster title in 2013. Which year benefitted Limerick hurling more?

Did many people seriously think that Ger Cunningham was the best man to lead the Dublin hurling team forward in early 2016 when it became apparent that players were leaving the panel left, right and centre because of his management?

This is the ludicrous situation that lots of posters here are actually advocating, that Leahy is the best man to lead Mayo forward, against a backdrop of widespread serious player dissatisfaction with his management.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

That's la la land stuff. Those who advocate such clearly have no interest in the wellbeing of Mayo women's football, and merely want him to dig in to"stick it" to those who left the panel.

Such "sticking it" is utterly futile and only harms Mayo women's football.

There's not widespread dissatisfaction. Its players and selector from 1 club. Why do you deliberately ignore actions and just continuously demand the manager be sacked/resign? It seems like you have a personal vendetta against him for some reason that can't be just managing the mayo ladies football team
Again, you repeat a lie.

And the notion that 12 players and two selectors pulling out is not evidence of widespread dissatisfaction is utterly laughable.

It's like dealing with a goldfish.

You forget everything said/pointed out previously and keep on insisting manager must go as part of some personal vendetta. Either that or you choose to completely ignore it . You refuse to accept the behaviour of the Carnacon players was even remotely out of order and the manager is some kind of monster who should be banished from the county never to return. 

Players pressuring teammates to quit a panel clearly only acting in the best interests of Mayo football ::) ::)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:31:40 PM by dublin7 »

trueblue1234

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #463 on: September 19, 2018, 01:35:00 PM »

People can look at things in different ways. There is no absolute truth here about who is right or wrong because what happened is a matter of personal interpretation.

The truth of the players who left the panel is clearly not the same as Leahy's truth.

What is an objective truth is that the grievances of the players are being casually treated as entirely illegitimate and dismissed out of hand by many people.

What is also an objective truth is that any manager who has 12 players pull out of a panel is failing in his job. The job of a manager is to manage players. Leahy clearly could not manage these players, key players without whom the team was badly weakened. It's staggering that anybody can see this as anything but a failure.

Not if the girls were looking to dictate what was happening within the team. In which case the management team were completely correct to push back and maybe it was something that had to happen in Mayo to break the influence of the Carnacon players (It's been discussed on here regarding some of the issues previous managements have had and the struggle to get anyone to manage the team in the past).  Yes the results of pushing back are not good. But if the management team had rolled over to their demands the result may have been disillusionment by the other girls on the panel of the management team. And the results of that could be equally as poor.  It just may have been a no win situation. I certainly don't look at it and think, well that was the management's fault.
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Jinxy

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Re: Row in Mayo LGFA
« Reply #464 on: September 19, 2018, 01:41:14 PM »
If there was a more diverse spread of clubs that the unhappy players were drawn from, I would be looking at this slightly different.
That the majority are from a single club, makes me wonder how many actually 100% wanted to leave and how many felt they had no choice but to leave.
If Cora & Fiona say they're going, and you as a Carnacon player say you want to stay, how would that go down?
If you were any use you'd be playing.