Author Topic: Roscommon v Armagh  (Read 19225 times)

armaghniac

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #405 on: July 12, 2018, 10:46:25 PM »
Go to bed you halfwit Tonya

Skating on thin ice!
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #406 on: July 14, 2018, 09:37:58 AM »
Mothy

To be quite honest I think the 2 points you make are linked and McGeeney is putting up a smokescreen to deflect from anybody looking in his direction.
Tactically McGeeney has wasted 3 years trying to introduce a system which didnít suit or wasnít understood by the players , system was based on a defensive set up with runners coming from deep a la Jimmy Donegal. A lot of players were not happy or comfortable with system and several requested change of tactics which was met with usual McGeeney diplomacy , this ended up with friction in the camp and withdrawal of a number of players , the players who stayed on have a devotion to McGeeney and would eat grass for him but some donít really have the ability for county football at a higher level.
McGeeney seemed to soften his approach last year and gathered up the best of the rest and let the players express themselves a bit more , progress was made through league and things were on the up , however a complete tactical melt down in Newry coincided with a return to the system which again didnít suit /wasnít understood by the players and I feel they thought they were thrown under the bus for performance. The players after a shaky start through the qualifiers threw off the shackles and played expressive football that they are capable of and received all the plaudits.
However when the Tyrone match came round the management reverted back to the system and the rest is history, the lads devoted to McGeeney stayed ,but a lot thought whatís the point !!management donít trust us to play and they will revert back to their default position at all times , hence withdrawals from squad en masse . Then McGeeney has a go at everyone else for withdrawals , start with man in the mirror.
Can McGeeney be trusted with another crop of players ?? I wouldnít think so, the cycle will just keep repeating for another 4 /5 years . Strictly my own opinion based on what I see and read.

There is a lot there I canít comment on. Iím not privy to conversations within the camp.

I do agree that there have been tactical meltdowns under McGeeney and therefore tactically management should be questioned. I do agree that there has been a tendency to revert to negative tactics when playing bigger sides and that this has yet to yield any dividend. But Iím intrigued that youíre insight from within the camp suggests that it was the players that threw off the shackles rather than the management who removed the shackles. Any detail to back your view up?

It would be blind stupidity to deny the mistakes of the McGeeney era but it would be equally stupid to not pause and check if he had in fact learned from the mistakes before tossing him overboard. Hence a review

« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:50:01 AM by smelmoth »

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #407 on: July 14, 2018, 09:41:57 AM »
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernanís , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30ís who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30ís still playing out of their skin !!

Is that the sound of a barrel being scraped?

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #408 on: July 14, 2018, 10:10:31 AM »
Be careful what you wish for Tim. If you think McGeeney isn't the man for the job then you should suggest who you think is the man. You clearly have an anti McGeeney agenda but you have to be realistic. We do not currently have the players at present to make super 8's. You have listed out players who were either fringe squad members previously or who are past their best.

That is the crux of the matter for the 'Geezer Out Brigade'. They feel there is potential there that is way beyond the reality.

With all due respect I disagree

Mayo have the players to get to the Super 8s but didnít get there. Thatís sport. But to say that we canít or donít produce players to compete with the like of Kildare, Monaghan or Roscommon is wrong.

We absolutely can compete at that level. We have been to the Quarter finals twice in recent years.

I wonder are Croatian management talking down the aspirations and capabilities of a small nation?

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #409 on: July 14, 2018, 05:48:24 PM »
The difference in quality between Roscommon and Tyrone shows that an appearance in the Super 8ís would have been a disaster for Armagh.

Solo_run

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #410 on: July 14, 2018, 06:32:19 PM »
Last week we were diasappointed to be knocked out but this we I think most of us would be happy. Whilst it would have been nice to see Roscommon do well, I think 15+ beatings are going to be the norm over the next few weeks.

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #411 on: July 14, 2018, 07:31:50 PM »
We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.

I wouldnít argue with that. But the frequency with which we reach AI finals is if no relevance to whether we could expect to win a provincial championship match or to reach the AI last 8 via either of the 2 routes
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:48:06 AM by smelmoth »

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #412 on: July 14, 2018, 07:35:42 PM »
The difference in quality between Roscommon and Tyrone shows that an appearance in the Super 8ís would have been a disaster for Armagh.

I disagree. We need to play these games.

A new thing the super 8s does through up is a game the following week after a collapse. In Roscommonís case at home to a team also beat the week before. The response if any will be interesting to watch.

Whatever the truth is for Roscommon there is no point hiding from it. The same for ourselves
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:53:03 AM by smelmoth »

DuffleKing

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #413 on: July 16, 2018, 03:46:06 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

Syferus

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #414 on: July 16, 2018, 03:51:10 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

Probably. We blow very hot and cold. Who knows what Roscommon team will turn up next weekend.

APM

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #415 on: July 16, 2018, 03:54:38 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

No!  It would have set us back and we would have had games against Donegal and Dublin to look forward to. I think you need to have a couple of years in Divsion 1 to get up to the speed of those teams.  But the reality is that there isn't a super 8.  There might be a Super 3 or 4 and then very good 2 and another couple to make up the numbers.  Armagh would have been there to make up the numbers this year.  For those games to be anyway useful for a team's development, they need to be competitive and Roscommon were anything but on Saturday and they were 6pts better than Armagh the previous week. 

yellowcard

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #416 on: July 16, 2018, 03:57:25 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

Definitely not. Tyrone done the exact same thing to a better quality Armagh side last season. It would have been a whitewash if we had got to the Super 8s, it was a blessing in disguise that we didn't.

Solo_run

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #417 on: July 16, 2018, 03:58:30 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?

No!  It would have set us back and we would have had games against Donegal and Dublin to look forward to. I think you need to have a couple of years in Divsion 1 to get up to the speed of those teams.  But the reality is that there isn't a super 8.  There might be a Super 3 or 4 and then very good 2 and another couple to make up the numbers.  Armagh would have been there to make up the numbers this year.  For those games to be anyway useful for a team's development, they need to be competitive and Roscommon were anything but on Saturday and they were 6pts better than Armagh the previous week.

I get where you are coming from, they need to experience the big games to learn from them.

However, I don't think I could watch Armagh getting hammered by Tyrone two years running and can't see the benefit in it either.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 04:00:03 PM by Solo_run »

smelmoth

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #418 on: July 16, 2018, 05:50:49 PM »
I donít see the point of not testing yourself?

What golfer would turn down an entry to the Masters?  Certainly not any aiming to test or improve themselves.

Division 3 and many of the qualifier games provide no meaningful test

Captain Obvious

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #419 on: July 16, 2018, 05:58:22 PM »

Would we have fared any better than the Rossies?
No as teams that defend poorly against Tyrone are always well beaten.