Author Topic: Roscommon v Armagh  (Read 15343 times)

yellowcard

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #360 on: July 10, 2018, 11:50:39 PM »
I’d presume mcgeeney’s criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O’Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I’d imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren’t involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O’Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O’Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don’t know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?

Rian O’Neill is a rookie who has yet to pull on a senior county jersey, whilst Oisin left behind as many questions as answers after his debut season in a county jersey last year. They could potentially be good players but they have plenty to prove before they can be considered match winners.

Canpbell and Clarke on the other hand are proven performers at county level and were huge misses.


seafoid

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #361 on: July 11, 2018, 05:28:35 AM »
I’d presume mcgeeney’s criticism is directed at crossmaglen and the decision of the the O’Neill brothers not to play for Armagh this year. I’d imagine his criticism is directed at those giving advice to them. They are 2 very talented footballers who would have got Armagh over the line against both fermanagh / Roscommon. They clearly have a decision to make if mcgeeney stays as manager next year. It would be a complete and utter waste of talent if they play only for cross next year. However, nobody should have to beg them to come and play for Armagh

If we have most of our better players back we should be challenging for division 1 next year. Players that I feel are good enough that we could call upon next year that weren’t involved against Roscommon are:

- mckay, heffron, Hughes, Morgan, Higgins, ohanlon
- O.O’Neill, crealey, e.rafferty
- Campbell, R.O’Neill, Clarke, c.rafferty, m.mckenna

I don’t know the inns and outs of the set up but perhaps mcgeeney could look at improving his back room set by replacing Hollywood / mckeever?
Could Armagh not organise a match between the McGeeney loyalists and the exiles to see which team is better ?
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Tim’s Hero

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #362 on: July 11, 2018, 07:38:40 AM »
[No, but if they had played as you wished, then right now they would have finished the season as part of our squad. Would you have kept them on as each player accumulates another year? If you do not, then you are removing a sizeable chunk of the squad which will necessitate rebuilding. If you keep them on, then you are relying on them again for next year, as they advance to their late thirties]



Rufus I understand you don’t know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please don’t be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12’s where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning , {the managers job ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}



Rufus T Firefly

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #363 on: July 11, 2018, 08:12:03 AM »
Rufus I understand you don’t know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please don’t be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12’s where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning ,

Funny, rebuilding takes planning - the manager's job as you've pointed out - and for which you were criticizing Geezer that rebuilding was still required.

ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}

Yes, not the first time you've mentioned the 5 year plan and not the first time I'm going to ask you to provide a link to it.

You've shown an excellent knack of pointedly ignoring questions directed at you, so I'm not hopeful you'll produce something here.

Edit - well to be fair, I'll hold my hands up on that one. I had a wee trawl myself there and see a number of references and links to it, - and yet, when I ask about this within County Board circles there is an insistence that five years was never actually stipulated anywhere, and I am aware that Geezer's tenure has been ratified each subsequent year for the following year. The 5 year plan does tend to be used as stick by the Geezer out Brigade.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 08:35:15 AM by Rufus T Firefly »


seafoid

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #364 on: July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM »
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh’s and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
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manfromdelmonte

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #365 on: July 11, 2018, 08:59:34 AM »
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh’s and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record

mackers

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #366 on: July 11, 2018, 09:13:18 AM »
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record
The reason for this is straightforward.  Geezer has this Armagh team playing expansive football.  It's great to watch and has led us to watch some seriously entertaining matches over the last couple of years.  Once we come up against a defensive system we struggle.  Needless to say Ulster championship football is defensive for the most part.  Once we move away from this environment into the qualifiers this team can play the way it wants to.  If we have any ambitions in Ulster this is something that the management have to address over the winter months.
With regard to getting players back into the fold I feel Geezer has to relax his control over the players with respect to playing for their clubs.  Obviously if lads are cut off from their clubs when they join the county panel this will have a detrimental effect on players within some of the more ambitious clubs.  It would be naive to imagine him letting them play willy nilly but if there were listed matches like the setup in Monaghan, for example, agreed at the start of the year perhaps he would have a greater take up from senior clubs.
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Throw ball

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #367 on: July 11, 2018, 09:16:14 AM »
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh’s and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.

Dougal Maguire

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #368 on: July 11, 2018, 09:56:31 AM »
And lost by a point to Donegal in the All Ireland quarter final
Careful now

seafoid

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #369 on: July 11, 2018, 09:59:43 AM »
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh’s and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.
My mistake .Anyway it is a poor record
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bennydorano

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #370 on: July 11, 2018, 01:10:01 PM »
We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.


Tim’s Hero

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #371 on: July 11, 2018, 01:34:39 PM »
Didn’t Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .

Captain Obvious

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #372 on: July 11, 2018, 02:20:13 PM »
2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

So its Tyrone v Armagh in Croke Park this Saturday I'd better buy my ticket...

Rufus T Firefly

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #373 on: July 11, 2018, 02:31:05 PM »
Didn’t Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .

Rebuild?


omagh_gael

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Re: Roscommon v Armagh
« Reply #374 on: July 11, 2018, 03:11:33 PM »
How many club games did the county men play this year? In Tyrone or lads have played 6/7 matches so far (out of 12 games in total).