Author Topic: No Country for Women - RTE1  (Read 1414 times)

magpie seanie

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No Country for Women - RTE1
« on: June 20, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »
Anyone watch the first part of this last night? Pretty depressing and sad stuff. Shameful really what our State in the Republic has done to half of it's population and the reasoning behind it. Another potent example of the total betrayal of the brave men and women of 1916-1922 and their ideals. If we heard of this kind of stuff happening in a muslim country we'd be outraged yet this was happening up to the 90's here. And on some levels it still is happening here.

bennydorano

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 10:46:07 AM »
Didn't see if but will catch up, but I made a point on another thread that was about Ireland rejecting the Catholic Church or a Post Catholic Ireland. I made the point that it's 1916 and all that followed that is now being unpicked, it's much bigger than a rejection of the RCC.

macdanger2

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 09:12:04 PM »
Have it recorded alright, haven't watched it yet

armaghniac

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 11:05:12 PM »
The men of 1916 established a democracy, where women had the same vote as men. If that is what people wanted then that is a fair outcome of 1916.
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Rossfan

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 12:17:25 AM »
The men of 1916 didn't establish anything.
The executions of their leaders radicalised Nationalist Ireland for a few years.
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Ball Hopper

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 12:35:06 AM »
A link for those abroad will be appreciated.

magpie seanie

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 01:12:02 PM »
The men of 1916 established a democracy, where women had the same vote as men. If that is what people wanted then that is a fair outcome of 1916.


What about the women of 1916? The rest of your post displays similar ignorance....I'd advise you have a watch if you can access the documentary. The treatment of women by the Republic of Ireland government since 1922 has been totally scandalous and vastly at odds with the ideals of those brave people who fought in 1916.

seafoid

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 02:28:47 PM »
The ideals of 1916 were not reflected in the values of the society at the time. The economy was based on owning land and that is not very pro women.


From Irish times comments

AnChiarogEile
 


@Honey The ferocious puritanism of Irish Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries probably stems as much from the experience of the Famine as from the Church's own dogma. People had seen in the starkest form imaginable where early marriage and big families tended to lead in an entirely rural country, so post-1850 they went in for rigorous population control by the only means available at the time: not having sex until you could afford to maintain a family; which for many people like Michael Collins's father meant their late sixties, and for many more people meant "never". A moral constabulary was needed to police this social order: and the Church gladly stepped into that role. The only trouble was that in Ireland the regime thus imposed lasted well into the age of efficient birth control, long after it had disappeared even in countries like Spain. But the urge to dictate is still there in ghostly form: a bit like a dog turning round several times before it lies down to sleep, flattening the undergrowth of the forests where its ancestors lived.



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From the Bunker

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 11:58:18 PM »
The ideals of 1916 were not reflected in the values of the society at the time. The economy was based on owning land and that is not very pro women.


From Irish times comments

AnChiarogEile
 


@Honey The ferocious puritanism of Irish Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries probably stems as much from the experience of the Famine as from the Church's own dogma. People had seen in the starkest form imaginable where early marriage and big families tended to lead in an entirely rural country, so post-1850 they went in for rigorous population control by the only means available at the time: not having sex until you could afford to maintain a family; which for many people like Michael Collins's father meant their late sixties, and for many more people meant "never". A moral constabulary was needed to police this social order: and the Church gladly stepped into that role. The only trouble was that in Ireland the regime thus imposed lasted well into the age of efficient birth control, long after it had disappeared even in countries like Spain. But the urge to dictate is still there in ghostly form: a bit like a dog turning round several times before it lies down to sleep, flattening the undergrowth of the forests where its ancestors lived.

A look at the 1901 and 1911 census tells the above story. Oldest Sons waited for younger siblings to clear off! Men were in their 40's before Marriage marrying women up to 20 years younger than them. These women in turn could be widows for up 30 years.

Oraisteach

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2018, 01:21:19 AM »
The documentary is on YouTube

manfromdelmonte

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2018, 07:39:23 AM »
The ideals of 1916 were not reflected in the values of the society at the time. The economy was based on owning land and that is not very pro women.


From Irish times comments

AnChiarogEile
 


@Honey The ferocious puritanism of Irish Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries probably stems as much from the experience of the Famine as from the Church's own dogma. People had seen in the starkest form imaginable where early marriage and big families tended to lead in an entirely rural country, so post-1850 they went in for rigorous population control by the only means available at the time: not having sex until you could afford to maintain a family; which for many people like Michael Collins's father meant their late sixties, and for many more people meant "never". A moral constabulary was needed to police this social order: and the Church gladly stepped into that role. The only trouble was that in Ireland the regime thus imposed lasted well into the age of efficient birth control, long after it had disappeared even in countries like Spain. But the urge to dictate is still there in ghostly form: a bit like a dog turning round several times before it lies down to sleep, flattening the undergrowth of the forests where its ancestors lived.
The RCC de facto was running the country
They got legislation passed to control women, legitimacy of children born out of marriage and the rights to have a fair hearing in front of a jury of peers
The RCC was also given control over the vast majority of schools, hospitals, care homes, social services and even psychiatric care

seafoid

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 08:20:16 AM »
The ideals of 1916 were not reflected in the values of the society at the time. The economy was based on owning land and that is not very pro women.


From Irish times comments

AnChiarogEile
 


@Honey The ferocious puritanism of Irish Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries probably stems as much from the experience of the Famine as from the Church's own dogma. People had seen in the starkest form imaginable where early marriage and big families tended to lead in an entirely rural country, so post-1850 they went in for rigorous population control by the only means available at the time: not having sex until you could afford to maintain a family; which for many people like Michael Collins's father meant their late sixties, and for many more people meant "never". A moral constabulary was needed to police this social order: and the Church gladly stepped into that role. The only trouble was that in Ireland the regime thus imposed lasted well into the age of efficient birth control, long after it had disappeared even in countries like Spain. But the urge to dictate is still there in ghostly form: a bit like a dog turning round several times before it lies down to sleep, flattening the undergrowth of the forests where its ancestors lived.

A look at the 1901 and 1911 census tells the above story. Oldest Sons waited for younger siblings to clear off! Men were in their 40's before Marriage marrying women up to 20 years younger than them. These women in turn could be widows for up 30 years.
I remember back in the late 80s at home a family with schoolkids like us , a mother like ours  who was maybe mid 30s and a father who was at least 75, so more like my grandfather. He was a farm labourer and had to wait until he was in his 60s to have the cash to "get a wife".
It was a brutal system.
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Farrandeelin

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 08:49:59 AM »
The ideals of 1916 were not reflected in the values of the society at the time. The economy was based on owning land and that is not very pro women.


From Irish times comments

AnChiarogEile
 


@Honey The ferocious puritanism of Irish Catholicism in the 19th and 20th centuries probably stems as much from the experience of the Famine as from the Church's own dogma. People had seen in the starkest form imaginable where early marriage and big families tended to lead in an entirely rural country, so post-1850 they went in for rigorous population control by the only means available at the time: not having sex until you could afford to maintain a family; which for many people like Michael Collins's father meant their late sixties, and for many more people meant "never". A moral constabulary was needed to police this social order: and the Church gladly stepped into that role. The only trouble was that in Ireland the regime thus imposed lasted well into the age of efficient birth control, long after it had disappeared even in countries like Spain. But the urge to dictate is still there in ghostly form: a bit like a dog turning round several times before it lies down to sleep, flattening the undergrowth of the forests where its ancestors lived.

A look at the 1901 and 1911 census tells the above story. Oldest Sons waited for younger siblings to clear off! Men were in their 40's before Marriage marrying women up to 20 years younger than them. These women in turn could be widows for up 30 years.

Happened in my family too.
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seafoid

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 09:23:11 AM »
The infrastructure inherited from the Brits in 1921 was very poor and so was the State. (They did manage to build a lot of social housing, however)

Hospitals and homes for the elderly were often built out of workhouses as in Roscommon. So were *solutions* for unmarried mothers as in Tuam. Religious orders built a lot of schools. And there was a lottery called the hospitals sweepstakes to fund hospitals which were given religious names and then run by religious orders eg St Vincents and the Mater in Dublin , Our Lady of Lourdes in Drogheda, the Calvary in Galway. A lot of social policy was contracted out to the religious sector.

The religious orders ended up controlling a lot of land. 
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magpie seanie

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Re: No Country for Women - RTE1
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 09:32:44 AM »
The infrastructure inherited from the Brits in 1921 was very poor and so was the State. (They did manage to build a lot of social housing, however)

Hospitals and homes for the elderly were often built out of workhouses as in Roscommon. So were *solutions* for unmarried mothers as in Tuam. Religious orders built a lot of schools. And there was a lottery called the hospitals sweepstakes to fund hospitals which were given religious names and then run by religious orders eg St Vincents and the Mater in Dublin , Our Lady of Lourdes in Drogheda, the Calvary in Galway. A lot of social policy was contracted out to the religious sector.

The religious orders ended up controlling a lot of land.


They still do and even though it must be acknowledged that they did some good work, the horrific crimes, a lot of it systematic, they oversaw means an awful lot of people are owed an awful lot of redress. This wealth should pay for a lot of that. There's no need for a charitable organisation to be so wealthy.....absolutely counterintuitive and directly contradicts their own teaching.