Author Topic: Catholics voting DUP  (Read 3344 times)

heganboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3757
  • well hello there!
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2018, 03:38:46 PM »
where do you think the 100,000 people in NI because of abortion control comes from?

also - quite simply, while I might not be pro abortion- its not my body, and its not my choice, but everyone has a right to their choice.
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

Jim_Murphy_74

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2018, 05:04:19 PM »
I think the DUP are playing a dangerous game.  You would think they want to keep tight with the Brits until Brexit is resolved at least.  They could have been more careful and way less emotive about how they are going to bat about abortion.  I would have thought a more strategic thing would be say that it's a matter for discussion by assembly, so let's redouble our efforts etc.. etc.. 

By roaring and shouting about it they are bringing more attention on the rest of their whacky shite:  (Sammy on ethnics, Peter on sending Muslims to the shops, gays repulsing Ian Óg,  Poots on creationsim).  Arlene getting involved in Scottish Orange Order march adds more fuel.

I mean WTF?  Is there no single strategist among them all? I know people caricature this crew but surely someone in the party is saying hold the horses, let's box a bit clever here and stop playing to the caricature? 

/Jim.

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13331
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2018, 05:13:56 PM »
I hear An Taoiseach is to visit Orange Order HQ.
Will they be able to control their prejudices ?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5510
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2018, 05:55:57 PM »
DUP/SF play the "treatment table" card when things need sorting. No executive suits them both so they can't be blamed for controversial legislation being passed (DUP - SS marriage/abortion, SF - Brexit).

They both know they can do nothing about them, so rather than be blamed afterwards, they have a get out clause of "treatment table" (no executive). That's why you'll see no executive until after abortion, Brexit and gay marriage is wrapped up. So they can both blame the British government.

Then again, the British government have wiped their hands with the North too since 98 in particular, they blame parties here when it suits them.

Fionntamhnach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2326
  • "Load up on drugs, kill your friends..."
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2018, 10:39:26 PM »
Official name is "the Catholic Church" the Roman part is an adjective to differentiate from other churches that use the same name, and is so called because the Bishop of Rome leads the church.

It is viewed in many cases as a derogatory term, but not always, as the church itself does use the term in its own literature.
I remember discussing this with someone locally a long time ago. Essentially the name "Roman Catholic Church" as a name helps differentiate it with other churches within Christianity that also use "Catholic" in their name that can be in full communion with the Pope, not recognise the Pope at all (mostly conclavists & sedevacantists) or be in a grey area in between - some examples would include the Greek Catholic, Coptic Catholic, Old Catholic and whatever breakaway church that ordained Sinead O'Connor as a priest.
Where it's often seen as a derogatory term in NI and also in some places in Britain is from its use by certain Protestants to imply that "Roman Catholic" means that its followers in their faith are sub-servant to a foreign head i.e. the Pope, as opposed to most Protestant denominations that are derived from Episcopalian/Anglican or Calvinist lines of theology that sees the monarch of England & Scotland as the head leader of their faith & beliefs, for example the English & Scottish monarch has the title "defender of the faith" within the Church of England. It's therefore implied that Catholics in the UK cannot be loyal to the country they live in because the leader of their faith (among many other things) is a foreigner and not the British monarch. The use of the phrase "Church of Rome" cranks the derogatory factor up a couple more notches. It's not something that is targeted at Catholics alone, the same accusations have been made over centuries in Europe against the likes of Jews, Muslims and some small Protestant sects like the Mennonites as to them not being loyal either to the monarch or the state/nation.
IMO, it's about context.
Putting internet gobshítes in their place since 1999

ziggysego

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22381
    • View Profile
    • My Way Access
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2018, 09:03:25 AM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502
Testing Accessibility

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13331
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2018, 09:25:11 AM »
Very interesting.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Rois

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2859
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2018, 09:28:17 AM »
Who ever thought Peter Robinson would be suggesting periodic border polls?

I don't think he'd even vote for the DUP any more. 

Applesisapples

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3590
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2018, 09:29:12 AM »
The term Roman Catholic to northerners of my generation is seen as a derogatory one, as in "some of my best Friends are Roman Catholic." I said this to a southern friend recently and he was surprised. On abortion, you can't expect political parties to totally reflect your personal views on social and moral issues. The question you should be asking is does that policy force me to do something against my will, ie have an abortion, marry somone of your own sex etc... If not then what is the issue, other than you making a judgement which runs contrary to the teaching of Christ for compassion and forgiveness.

tiempo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2018, 10:12:31 AM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

J70

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10921
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2018, 01:45:40 PM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

Seriously?

You’re hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!

Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)

ziggysego

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22381
    • View Profile
    • My Way Access
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2018, 02:07:30 PM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

Seriously?

You’re hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!

Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)

Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.
Testing Accessibility

sid waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1459
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2018, 02:22:53 PM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

Seriously?

You’re hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!

Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)

Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.
Really? I must have been dreaming when I heard former GAA president Sean Kelly use this very term from the podium in Semple Stadium, so.

tiempo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2018, 02:36:12 PM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

Seriously?

You’re hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!

Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)

How is it irrelevant that the people obsessed with being seen as more British than the British aren't actually British. Stockholm syndrome 101. Add to that their forefathers/representatives oversaw a programme of state sponsored sectarian oppression against the native population in order to progress a land-grab/pogrom.

There's no need to hang a hat anywhere and don't be put off by technicalities, lets just agree I'm right on this, unless you can show me otherwise. Congratulations to science and geography, same group of cowboys responsible for naming the Irish Sea?

Put it like this, the British see the UK-ish as Irish and would be shot of the whole lot of them and the gerrymandered statelet in the morning if they could, the UK-ish and Irish are shit on the shoe of the British ruling class, to think otherwise is to underestimate their absolute lack of conscience. They are well on their way to dumping the UK-ish through nefarious political means.

But sure lookit, we'll co-opt them into a new state for all and get on with it.

J70

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10921
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics voting DUP
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2018, 04:28:29 PM »
Nothing said about the DUP voters who might not agree with the party on this issue and sent a wee letter to Ian Paisley Jnr or Arlene Foster to say they are going to vote Sinn Fein or the SDLP now? It's not always one-way traffic, as I know a former Unionist voter who decided to change his views on constitutional issues and vote Sinn Fein now.

"In the BBC survey, 29% of those with a Protestant background defined themselves as Irish, but only 4% of those with a Catholic background identified as British."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44398502

Identity crisis 101 = asking someone born and brought up anywhere on the island of Ireland how British they feel. Makes about as much sense as asking the same cohort how French do they feel. Britain is the union between England Scotland and Wales, no-one born on the island of Ireland is British. Some may consider themselves UK-ish, and more power to them (metaphorically).

The fact the BBC are putting this out there... Tories chipping away at the "identity" of the statelet? Wouldn't put it past them, they have no affinity for the UK-ish aside from when it is politically pragmatic.

Seriously?

You’re hanging your hat on an irrelevant labeling technicality? UK ethnicity, NOT British, that should grab a bit of attention and be taken seriously all right!

Ireland is part of the British Isles BTW in the sciences and geography. ;)

Only the British refer to it as that and Americans who know no better.

Not the case. British Isles is all over the natural sciences. The islands are treated as a group in many studies and reviews. The use of the name is simple expediency in the lack of an alternative.