Time for a post-catholic Ireland

[Feckitt]

Like most Irish people from a cultural Catholic background I am opposed to the Church's teachings on countless issues.  I believe that they are wrong about contraception, abortion, gay marriage, women priests, the sanctity of confession.  And most of all, I don't actually believe in God.  In addition to that I firmly believe that most priests do not believe in god either, because half of them only became priests because they were gay and didn't know what else to do.

However, we all play along with the game.  We get our kids baptised because we want them to go to the local school.  We play along with the Catholic faith because we want to get married in Catholic churches and when I die, I want to be buried in the same graveyard as the rest of my family which happens of course to be a catholic graveyard.

The Catholic church have been getting flak for questioning why people want to get married in Catholic churches if they do not adhere to Catholic doctrine, and maybe they have a point.  Why do we want to get married in Catholic churches?  Is it time to make a break and start again?  Have I a right as a non practising catholic to be buried beside my parents and grandparents or should I be shunted off to the municipal graveyard in the town.

As I live in rural county Armagh, if I don't send my children to a Catholic school, I have to send them to a Protestant primary school, there is no alternative, therefore I am forced to get the children baptised.  The churches authority is gone, and it's time to question why they should be allowed to continue to dominate the education sector both North & South.

[seafoid]

I think culturally Irish will always be catholic-flexible, sloppy, good at solving problems,  bad at accountability and  following rules.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/law-removing-baptism-as-requirement-for-school-entry-passed-by-dáil-1.3514882

[armaghniac]

Like most Irish people from a cultural Catholic background I am opposed to the Church's teachings on countless issues.  I believe that they are wrong about contraception, abortion, gay marriage, women priests, the sanctity of confession.  And most of all, I don't actually believe in God.  In addition to that I firmly believe that most priests do not believe in god either, because half of them only became priests because they were gay and didn't know what else to do.

However, we all play along with the game.  We get our kids baptised because we want them to go to the local school.  We play along with the Catholic faith because we want to get married in Catholic churches and when I die, I want to be buried in the same graveyard as the rest of my family which happens of course to be a catholic graveyard.

The Catholic church have been getting flak for questioning why people want to get married in Catholic churches if they do not adhere to Catholic doctrine, and maybe they have a point.  Why do we want to get married in Catholic churches?  Is it time to make a break and start again?  Have I a right as a non practising catholic to be buried beside my parents and grandparents or should I be shunted off to the municipal graveyard in the town.

As I live in rural county Armagh, if I don't send my children to a Catholic school, I have to send them to a Protestant primary school, there is no alternative, therefore I am forced to get the children baptised.  The churches authority is gone, and it's time to question why they should be allowed to continue to dominate the education sector both North & South.

A touch of the Boris Johnson about all of this. I want to leave the EU and still have all the cake.

[Hardy]

Like most Irish people from a cultural Catholic background I am opposed to the Church's teachings on countless issues.  I believe that they are wrong about contraception, abortion, gay marriage, women priests, the sanctity of confession.  And most of all, I don't actually believe in God.  In addition to that I firmly believe that most priests do not believe in god either, because half of them only became priests because they were gay and didn't know what else to do.

However, we all play along with the game.  We get our kids baptised because we want them to go to the local school.  We play along with the Catholic faith because we want to get married in Catholic churches and when I die, I want to be buried in the same graveyard as the rest of my family which happens of course to be a catholic graveyard.

The Catholic church have been getting flak for questioning why people want to get married in Catholic churches if they do not adhere to Catholic doctrine, and maybe they have a point.  Why do we want to get married in Catholic churches?  Is it time to make a break and start again?  Have I a right as a non practising catholic to be buried beside my parents and grandparents or should I be shunted off to the municipal graveyard in the town.

As I live in rural county Armagh, if I don't send my children to a Catholic school, I have to send them to a Protestant primary school, there is no alternative, therefore I am forced to get the children baptised.  The churches authority is gone, and it's time to question why they should be allowed to continue to dominate the education sector both North & South.

A touch of the Boris Johnson about all of this. I want to leave the EU and still have all the cake.

Only a touch, at most.

The majority of the EU wants to remain part of the EU as is – for the most part, as far as we can tell from the facts that 1) the UK is the only country to have decided to leave and 2) there is no 'leave' majority that we know of in any other country. 

On the other hand, as far as we can tell, the majority of those who identify as Catholic disagree with the self appointed hierarchy on, it seems, the great majority of doctrinal and social policy issues.

[guy crouchback]

its a fascinating subject this, and we are watching what is little short of a gentle reformation play out before our eyes. the vast majority of citizens in the republic of Ireland ( using this as i'm using census figures) classify themselves as catholic, over 80%,
yet the vast majority of these Catholics reject huge parts of the church doctrine, any remaining doubts  about the extent of this being well and truly dispelled last week. 

yet all these Catholics consider themselves catholic, and by and large are happy in their Catholicism. i'm an atheist and have been since i was 11 and i came from a home that was a good deal less catholic then most of those around me so i honestly cannot understand their thinking at all, it baffles me.

but i see it in my wife's and her family and my friends and their families, all secular liberal minded people, rarely if ever go to church out from weddings funerals etc, yet consider themselves catholic and profess a great fondness for many aspects of it while having an equally great revulsion for may other aspects of it.

they pick the bits they like and ignore the rest and condemn some of it and are as often appalled by the church's actions as they are inspired by it.
and it has come to the point that on the ground most priests are perfectly happy to go along with this and on a personal level seem closer to the views of their flock tan to the teachings of rome.

now not that long ago (up to last week) all this sickened me a bit as i saw it as giving an easy ride to a malevolent and dangerous organization that still held too much influence over society and i saw the hypocrisy of these so called Catholics as perpetuating this sly influence on society.

as of last week i see they have no influence left, zero, its finished, they are harmless, their continued presence as the new Irish Catholic Church is no threat to modern irish society.

[BennyCake]

Is being a catholic and not agreeing with everything the church does, not the same as being a GAA member and not agreeing with everything they do?

Actually, the church waiver a lot more of their own rules than the GAA do. Anyway, this is not a GAA/church thing, I'm just saying like.

[manfromdelmonte]

its a fascinating subject this, and we are watching what is little short of a gentle reformation play out before our eyes. the vast majority of citizens in the republic of Ireland ( using this as i'm using census figures) classify themselves as catholic, over 80%,
yet the vast majority of these Catholics reject huge parts of the church doctrine, any remaining doubts  about the extent of this being well and truly dispelled last week. 

yet all these Catholics consider themselves catholic, and by and large are happy in their Catholicism. i'm an atheist and have been since i was 11 and i came from a home that was a good deal less catholic then most of those around me so i honestly cannot understand their thinking at all, it baffles me.

but i see it in my wife's and her family and my friends and their families, all secular liberal minded people, rarely if ever go to church out from weddings funerals etc, yet consider themselves catholic and profess a great fondness for many aspects of it while having an equally great revulsion for may other aspects of it.

they pick the bits they like and ignore the rest and condemn some of it and are as often appalled by the church's actions as they are inspired by it.
and it has come to the point that on the ground most priests are perfectly happy to go along with this and on a personal level seem closer to the views of their flock tan to the teachings of rome.

now not that long ago (up to last week) all this sickened me a bit as i saw it as giving an easy ride to a malevolent and dangerous organization that still held too much influence over society and i saw the hypocrisy of these so called Catholics as perpetuating this sly influence on society.

as of last week i see they have no influence left, zero, its finished, they are harmless, their continued presence as the new Irish Catholic Church is no threat to modern irish society.

the majority of the population is indoctrinated from an early age by our school system

Pearse called the primary school system the 'murder machine' in terms of the Irish language
it was actually turned into a tool for the mass indoctrination and subjugation of the population by the catholic church

[johnnycool]

As I live in rural county Armagh, if I don't send my children to a Catholic school, I have to send them to a Protestant primary school, there is no alternative, therefore I am forced to get the children baptised.

That shouldn't be the case, no school in the Catholic sector in the North that I know requires a child to be baptised in a Catholic church to be accepted for admission. AFAIK you also have the right to have your child withdrawn from RE lessons.

By and large nowadays not one brass farthing comes from the Catholic Church towards CCMS schools other than maybe the building is built on Church grounds and if you dig deeper those Church grounds were probably left to them by someone in their will possibly written by the local PP anyway.

[seafoid]

That priest in Dunboyne turning on the SVP is for the birds.
Never turn on the people.

[Eamonnca1]

Is being a catholic and not agreeing with everything the church does, not the same as being a GAA member and not agreeing with everything they do?

Actually, the church waiver a lot more of their own rules than the GAA do. Anyway, this is not a GAA/church thing, I'm just saying like.

There's a great deal more democratic control in the GAA than in the Catholic church. If you want change to happen in the GAA you state your case, you lobby for it, you convince people to adopt your ideas, they get voted on, and you achieve your goals if you do a good enough job of it.  How do you bring about change in the Catholic church? Wait for a more enlightened Pope to be appointed?

[Rossfan]

The Catholic Church isn't a democracy, it's a Hierarchical body where the instructions come from the top.

[Therealdonald]

I always remember my Grandmother talking about this, the same people who contribute nothing to the Church contributions, are the same people complaining when the Priest can't find an available date for a wedding or a Christening. You don't want to christen children then don't. Its simples. But I will make the point that whenever something drastic happens in life 99% of the time the local Priest is called and he offers a sympathetic/guiding ear, so be careful what ye wish for.

[Esmarelda]

Hardy, is it not the case that the cardinals, guided by God, appoint the Pope and so the appointment is actually made by God himself, indirectly?

Guy, I agree with most of what you're saying but isn't considering yourself catholic but not agreeing with many aspects of it a complete contradiction?

I agree with many of the teachings of the church yet I don't believe. That does make me a catholic?

[BennyCake]

Is being a catholic and not agreeing with everything the church does, not the same as being a GAA member and not agreeing with everything they do?

Actually, the church waiver a lot more of their own rules than the GAA do. Anyway, this is not a GAA/church thing, I'm just saying like.

There's a great deal more democratic control in the GAA than in the Catholic church. If you want change to happen in the GAA you state your case, you lobby for it, you convince people to adopt your ideas, they get voted on, and you achieve your goals if you do a good enough job of it.  How do you bring about change in the Catholic church? Wait for a more enlightened Pope to be appointed?

Until it gets to Congress, and your county board representative votes whichever way he feels like. Often ignoring the status quo.

[Eamonnca1]

Is being a catholic and not agreeing with everything the church does, not the same as being a GAA member and not agreeing with everything they do?

Actually, the church waiver a lot more of their own rules than the GAA do. Anyway, this is not a GAA/church thing, I'm just saying like.

There's a great deal more democratic control in the GAA than in the Catholic church. If you want change to happen in the GAA you state your case, you lobby for it, you convince people to adopt your ideas, they get voted on, and you achieve your goals if you do a good enough job of it.  How do you bring about change in the Catholic church? Wait for a more enlightened Pope to be appointed?

Until it gets to Congress, and your county board representative votes whichever way he feels like. Often ignoring the status quo.

In which case you should have lobbied your county board members harder.