Paul Kimmage article about Athenry club dispute.

[screenexile]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

[Syferus]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

Omertàs only tend to be beneficial in the mafia.

[seafoid]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

Omertàs only tend to be beneficial in the mafia.

Also in the health service

[Itchy]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

I'd say if that was the response of your coaches to a 10 or 11 year old then they were gobshites. Kids are still in primary school at that stage.

[Dire Ear]

Why do you think he's an exile? !!

[screenexile]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

I'd say if that was the response of your coaches to a 10 or 11 year old then they were gobshites. Kids are still in primary school at that stage.

There's no question of that. . . the County final had to be stopped as 2 opposing mentors went at eachother with their hurls in the middle of the game. It was fairly dysfunctional if not a winning setup but it was 25 years ago so thankfully that kind of thing would be very rare now.

I don't think you should swear at 11/10 year olds but in the grand scheme of things I'm not going to write a letter to the club condemning it unless I thought it was overly excessive.

Under 12 shouldn't be competitive in my opinion anyway which should negate the need for that kind of behaviour and leave it more skills and fun based which is why I find it strange the Athenry U12 manager would be going on like that.

[AZOffaly]

On the face of it, it looks bad. And the closing of ranks gives a wrong impression. I'm also given to understand that at least a couple of the complainants would have given good service to Athenry and Galway, so it's not necessarily snowflake parents.

However, a couple of lines that stand out to me make me wonder if there's not a subtly different angle at play here.

1 - The Athenry club man that spoke to PK was adamant in pointing out their focus on participation at U12, and their lack of success at that grade. To me that sounds like a healthy enough take on it.
2 - The comment that the parents weren't happy with this approach and wanted the lads to play up a grade with a better team. That rings true to me. Especially if the parents are competitive individuals, they may not like their young lads taking beatings at U12 because weaker players are being given game time. I see that in our own club, and you really have to manage the parents as much as the kids when it comes to that.
3 - The scenario that was claimed the kids would never wear an Athenry jersey again seems fanciful. I would also think that the ring of truth sounds more real in the clubs version there. 'Lads ye are getting a jersey for today, but ye are going to have to play with your own age grade from now on'.

To me it seems as if the coach may be a bit old school alright, but that was only used as an excuse to try and get the kids moved up.
It seems as if the club official who addressed the lads directly was in technical breach of the guidelines, but I don't think it was a major screw up.

I would suggest the parents are leveraging this to get their kids moved up to a more competitive team, or else want a change of ethos in the club at U12 level.
I also would suggest the club seems to have handled it very poorly to let it go that far.

[Jinxy]

If some p***k in our club told my lad behind closed doors he wouldn't be getting playing for the club again I'd be having stern words with him face to face and then I'd be straight on to the County  Board and Croke Park to make sure he was nailed for it!!

The cursing thing wouldn't bother me a whole lot but I'd say mothers sticking around for training has a lot to do with it. They didn't do that in my time!

Something similar happened when we were U12 one of the lads complained to his Mum and it was relayed to the management team... they went mental and ran the shite out of the whole team that night and said this is the way it is when you want to win and he'd just have to get used to it and not run home telling tales!! That was that, he still played.

How do you know that is what happened though?
The chap was wrong to speak to the kids in the dressing-room on his own,
a) Because it's against the code of best practice
and,
b) There was no other adult there to witness the exchange.

[Jinxy]

Also, with respect to the swearing thing, my underage coaches all cursed like troopers, but it wasn't directed at us kids.
It was more "Come on ta f*ck, lads!" etc.
I never felt any coach was having a go at me personally and I was a lazy so-and-so.
Mind you, as kids we all cursed like troopers amongst ourselves (not in front of parents though) so we never batted an eyelid at bad language.

[seafoid]

Also, with respect to the swearing thing, my underage coaches all cursed like troopers, but it wasn't directed at us kids.
It was more "Come on ta f*ck, lads!" etc.
I never felt any coach was having a go at me personally and I was a lazy so-and-so.
Mind you, as kids we all cursed like troopers amongst ourselves (not in front of parents though) so we never batted an eyelid at bad language.

I don't think it is about bad language though. It's about how the institution responded.

[Itchy]

Swearing isnt the issue by itself, I suppose its how it was used. "Come on to f**k lads" versus "you are f**king useless" and I dont think we know which. The issue is the reaction of the club committee in my opinion.

I think people also make valid points that there was no need  to name the coaches involved, it served no purpose in the article as far as I can see. Odd that the complainant wasn't named too.

[Jinxy]

Again, like a lot of issues, it's not black and white.
There is fault on both sides for me, and we have all seen enough of what goes on in GAA clubs, particularly at underage, when it comes to player selection etc. to know that we are not privy to all the details here.
I vividly remember the mother of a teammate going ballistic at one of our selectors after an u-16 game because her son had been left on the bench and a younger lad brought on ahead of him.
She was screaming in the selectors face, calling him every name under the sun, while her mortified child stood feet away bawling his eyes out.

The selectors shouldn't have brought on the lad from the u-14 team, but his mother shouldn't have reacted the way she did.
All she did was make a bad, but salvageable, situation infinitely worse.
In fact, I'm not sure if he even played for the club again after that.
In small, rural communities, bad feeling can linger on for years.
People refusing to speak to each other over a kids game of football.
Sad, but true.

[johnnycool]

Sid, do you think he was right to name the two individuals?

Yes.

But they aren't even the individuals who come out of the article worst.

Stupid behaviour and breaches of protocol can and do happen.

The people who come out by far the worst are the people on the club executive.

They're the ones who have really dragged their club's name down.

And all because of pig headed ignorance.

On first glance of the article it does look like the club were at best negligent in its attempts to resolve the issue as prompted to by the Galway Childrens officer to set up a review which the body of the article suggests they never bothered their arses, but the transcript of the call between the chairman and PK suggests that they did but the complainants didn't respond. Three sides to every story.
If I was anything to do with the Athenry club I'd be send Kimmage that correspondence and asking him to ensure that it gets in the public glare.
I get the impression there has to be more to this than a few fucks thrown about by a coach. I'd say the way the club closed ranks early on probably got the parents backs up and then the rule book was being read up on and the phones ringing. The crowd at the hotel for the second meeting is a bit OTT all the same.

I've had parents complain to me about coaches cursing and I'd have had a word with them and that would be the end of it. As Jinxy says some lads may curse but not at the kids directly and even at that there's a whole pile worse you could say to a kid and not curse. It's all to do with context which is lost in all these reports.

I've also had parents on the phone complaining about wee Jonny not getting on and saying its a child protection issue which really does my banger in. Do a bit of digging and wee Jonny is very seldom at training and expects to walk onto the team and I'm not talking fundamentals age groups where we do try to give them all a run out, I'm talking U16 and Minor.
Some parents really do need to have a word with themselves and the kind of children they want to rear.

[Jinxy]

Yeah, in response to the Kimmage article I saw one woman on Twitter refer to her own son not being picked for his football team as 'emotional abuse'.
I'm sure plenty of these types will come out of the woodwork in the next few days.
All with axes to grind, and all completely blameless themselves.

[seafoid]

Again, like a lot of issues, it's not black and white.
There is fault on both sides for me, and we have all seen enough of what goes on in GAA clubs, particularly at underage, when it comes to player selection etc. to know that we are not privy to all the details here.
I vividly remember the mother of a teammate going ballistic at one of our selectors after an u-16 game because her son had been left on the bench and a younger lad brought on ahead of him.
She was screaming in the selectors face, calling him every name under the sun, while her mortified child stood feet away bawling his eyes out.

The selectors shouldn't have brought on the lad from the u-14 team, but his mother shouldn't have reacted the way she did.
All she did was make a bad, but salvageable, situation infinitely worse.
In fact, I'm not sure if he even played for the club again after that.
In small, rural communities, bad feeling can linger on for years.
People refusing to speak to each other over a kids game of football.
Sad, but true.

Other institutions have dispute resolution mechanisms.  All it would need is someone trusted by both parties to hammer out a compromise acceptable to both sides The danger of doing nothing is that the emotions become toxic.
At the end of the day it is a sports club. It is not a feud specialist.