Poll

Are you in favour of repealing the 8th amendment?

Yes
47 (21.8%)
Yes but have no vote
73 (33.8%)
No
40 (18.5%)
No but have no vote
36 (16.7%)
Undecided
20 (9.3%)

Total Members Voted: 216

Voting closed: May 24, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

Author Topic: Eighth Amendment poll  (Read 28125 times)

gallsman

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #660 on: May 20, 2018, 11:14:25 AM »
Classy post Gallsman. You would do well to educate yourself around a subject before commenting. I couldn't care less what way people vote, it's a very personal issue for a lot of people and unlike alot here I don't consider myself important enough to tell others how to think. What does annoy me is the ignorance around disability alot of the self appointed experts on here display. Stop being so f**king offensive
Thanks Tom. I'll not worry too much about taking lessons in manners from someone who calls someone a sc**bag and a twat, but you make sure to enjoy your day!
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Syferus

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #661 on: May 20, 2018, 12:52:39 PM »
Is anyone going to change a voters view on this? No. Can we all not agree that the extreme on both sides is ridiculous.

The extreme of anything is ridiculous. I donít know what that has to do with this, though. Both sides do not have the same amount of extremists by the looks of things so youíd be well advised not to draw a false equivalence between Yes and No campaigners.

Once again I'm in agreement with Sy here


Since 90%+ of abortions carried on will be on pregnancies from consensual mating and will not be medically necessary, that's what the discussion should be about.... so we should get back to it....

That 90%+ is a straight up weigh up of Mother Choice v Unborn Person's Life

Itís about every single situation wher abortion is needed. Pretending that people should only focus on the one use of abortion is incredibly disingenuous.

Did you not just say that the extremes are ridiculous? I thought by that you wanted to focus on the very similar scenario for the bulk of cases?

I really cannot fathom how you took me talking about the extreme views of people on any given issues to mean itís ok to ignore cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormalities or the mental well being of the woman when discussing abortion.




I love how fast some here are to judge what any couple does with advances modern science. Youíd swear that a healthy baby wasnít something all parents wish to have.

You are a piece of work. sc**bag

This post typifies a lot of the No side.

'No Side'. Grow up you twat, this isnt a game with sides. Some people here are parents or brothers-, sisters, grandparents of what you would describe as non 'healthy' babies. Have a bit of cop.

A huge plus 1 for this post. As a baby who was extremely sick (and still feel effects to this day) you've let yourself down shitting here Syf with that comment. My parents never complained. In fact they were delighted with any little bit of progress I made. So you Don't speak for all parents. I only dip in and out of here so I only saw your post now since TomFun posted it.

You are not comprehending what is a very beign point - that no one wants anything but their baby to be healthy - and combining it with an assumption of that meaning that any one born not healthy is Ďdefectiveí. That is the pathetic aspect of TomFunís sensationalist posts. I take serious issue with the characterisation he attempted to create of my post.

Screening for issues before birth is common place; what is done with that information is not something I am prepared to sit down and judge from afar like TomFun is attempting to do. Does he know the situations of each and every woman who ends a pregnancy? Who is he to judge her? A lot of the No side seem to want to have input in incredibly private matters between couples, and particularly the sexual biology of women. Not forcing narrow viewpoints on others is something Ireland has been learning to avoid doing for the last twenty years.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 04:39:38 PM by Syferus »

omaghjoe

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #662 on: May 20, 2018, 04:11:16 PM »
Is anyone going to change a voters view on this? No. Can we all not agree that the extreme on both sides is ridiculous.

The extreme of anything is ridiculous. I donít know what that has to do with this, though. Both sides do not have the same amount of extremists by the looks of things so youíd be well advised not to draw a false equivalence between Yes and No campaigners.

Once again I'm in agreement with Sy here


Since 90%+ of abortions carried on will be on pregnancies from consensual mating and will not be medically necessary, that's what the discussion should be about.... so we should get back to it....

That 90%+ is a straight up weigh up of Mother Choice v Unborn Person's Life

Itís about every single situation wher abortion is needed. Pretending that people should only focus on the one use of abortion is incredibly disingenuous.

Did you not just say that the extremes are ridiculous? I thought by that you wanted to focus on the very similar scenario for the bulk of cases?

I really cannot fathom how you took me talking about the extreame views of people on any given issues to mean itís ok to ignore cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormalities or the mental well being of the woman when discussing abortion.


Probably because thats what the initial post by mrdeeds was about...?

We ignore the extreme cases in both sides because they do not make up the majority. If I'm speeding because I'm in a rush its a crime, if I am speeding to get my wife to hospital its still a crime but its overlooked as it is deemed acceptable reason for breaking the law. We don't legislate to make speeding legal because of a few exceptional cases which we deem acceptable for breaking the law we use our judgement on the circumstances of each scenario.

omaghjoe

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #663 on: May 20, 2018, 04:15:59 PM »
Lads, is there any need for the language? Youíd swear some of your autocorrects insert f**ks and insults into sentences. I know people who seemingly canít speak a sentence without a curse in it, but being unable to type without one is strange.

Anyway I think some people are reading something into Syfís post that isnít there. Of course every prospective parent hopes their child will be born healthy and strong. Itís crazy to suggest they donít. However he is not saying that they wish to swap their children or anything like that. Once the issue is uncovered and the baby is born, those children are loved and cherished as much as a healthy baby. Of course they are.

So I donít think he is saying the parents of children with problems wish they were never born, or anything like that.

The context of the conversation was regarding the collapse of the population of Downs Syndrome population. In the context it was offered as justification for the termination of Down Syndrome diagnosis
 

mrdeeds

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #664 on: May 20, 2018, 05:14:15 PM »
Is anyone going to change a voters view on this? No. Can we all not agree that the extreme on both sides is ridiculous.

The extreme of anything is ridiculous. I donít know what that has to do with this, though. Both sides do not have the same amount of extremists by the looks of things so youíd be well advised not to draw a false equivalence between Yes and No campaigners.

Once again I'm in agreement with Sy here


Since 90%+ of abortions carried on will be on pregnancies from consensual mating and will not be medically necessary, that's what the discussion should be about.... so we should get back to it....

That 90%+ is a straight up weigh up of Mother Choice v Unborn Person's Life

Itís about every single situation wher abortion is needed. Pretending that people should only focus on the one use of abortion is incredibly disingenuous.

Did you not just say that the extremes are ridiculous? I thought by that you wanted to focus on the very similar scenario for the bulk of cases?

I really cannot fathom how you took me talking about the extreame views of people on any given issues to mean itís ok to ignore cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormalities or the mental well being of the woman when discussing abortion.


Probably because thats what the initial post by mrdeeds was about...?

We ignore the extreme cases in both sides because they do not make up the majority. If I'm speeding because I'm in a rush its a crime, if I am speeding to get my wife to hospital its still a crime but its overlooked as it is deemed acceptable reason for breaking the law. We don't legislate to make speeding legal because of a few exceptional cases which we deem acceptable for breaking the law we use our judgement on the circumstances of each scenario.

I said nothing.

sid waddell

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #665 on: May 21, 2018, 09:18:37 AM »
Is anyone going to change a voters view on this? No. Can we all not agree that the extreme on both sides is ridiculous.

The extreme of anything is ridiculous. I donít know what that has to do with this, though. Both sides do not have the same amount of extremists by the looks of things so youíd be well advised not to draw a false equivalence between Yes and No campaigners.

Once again I'm in agreement with Sy here


Since 90%+ of abortions carried on will be on pregnancies from consensual mating and will not be medically necessary, that's what the discussion should be about.... so we should get back to it....

That 90%+ is a straight up weigh up of Mother Choice v Unborn Person's Life

Itís about every single situation wher abortion is needed. Pretending that people should only focus on the one use of abortion is incredibly disingenuous.

Did you not just say that the extremes are ridiculous? I thought by that you wanted to focus on the very similar scenario for the bulk of cases?

I really cannot fathom how you took me talking about the extreame views of people on any given issues to mean itís ok to ignore cases of rape, incest, fatal fetal abnormalities or the mental well being of the woman when discussing abortion.


Probably because thats what the initial post by mrdeeds was about...?

We ignore the extreme cases in both sides because they do not make up the majority. If I'm speeding because I'm in a rush its a crime, if I am speeding to get my wife to hospital its still a crime but its overlooked as it is deemed acceptable reason for breaking the law. We don't legislate to make speeding legal because of a few exceptional cases which we deem acceptable for breaking the law we use our judgement on the circumstances of each scenario.
You ignore the extreme cases because you know full well the 8th Amendment causes extreme cases - regularly.

We should legislate for abortion because that's what sensible countries whose people aren't living in a la la make believe fantasy world do. Like, say, every other country in Europe.


thebigfella

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #666 on: May 21, 2018, 09:21:19 AM »
Is it over yet?

magpie seanie

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #667 on: May 21, 2018, 10:53:51 AM »
The youngest person with down syndrome in Iceland is 20. Clearly they have a cultural policy to eliminate the weakest or those who do not conform to some ideal model. Shame on them, hopefully Ireland does not head the same way. What choice did these babies have or were the parents coerced into making their decision. Progressive society not. Savita Halapanavar died of sepsis not for the need of an abortion. I will be voting no, I do feel huge sympathy for couples with cases of ffa.


Can't let this go. She died of sepsis because she was denied the proper medical treatment to save her life because of concerns of her doctors over the 8th amendment. It couldn't be clearer. She wouldn't have died in most countries in the world as it wouldn't have been in question.

Cant let this go either. A huge number of prominent consultants have came out and clearly explained the doctors in this case fucked up, nothing in the 8th amendment should have caused the death of SH.


Name and quote them and please indicate the level of access and knowledge they have about this case.

The official report is above. You wish to refute it so you'll need to do better than what you've said.

Even if you're right, it shows there is at best confusion among highly paid and educated professionals about the 8th amendment which is leading to improper treatment of women.

I wouldn't expect much, Rudi appears to be quite fond of posting manufactured facts and figures without anything backing it up. Still waiting to hear about a source for the youngest person in Iceland with Down's Syndrome being 20.

I read it heard it on the six one news various sources. I don't have time to post links. More over I don't need to justify myself or any quote to you.


Of course you don't have to justify yourself to me or anyone. However, in a discussion, if you want your points to be taken seriously, especially if you're contradicting and official enquiry, I think it's reasonable to ask that you include some facts.

Mayo4Sam

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #668 on: May 22, 2018, 10:04:20 AM »
I was interested in Rudi's claim about Iceland, turns out its pretty much true, not quiet but it seems that IF people find out about their child having DS then they terminate

from 2007 to 2015 every single pregnant woman in Iceland terminated a fetus with Down syndrome following a positive diagnosis

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/behind-the-lens-disappearing-down-syndrome/ you

Another tough one to call, its very different finding out after 3 months to actually having the baby and then finding out
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gallsman

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #669 on: May 22, 2018, 11:01:03 AM »
I was interested in Rudi's claim about Iceland, turns out its pretty much true, not quiet but it seems that IF people find out about their child having DS then they terminate

from 2007 to 2015 every single pregnant woman in Iceland terminated a fetus with Down syndrome following a positive diagnosis

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/behind-the-lens-disappearing-down-syndrome/ you

Another tough one to call, its very different finding out after 3 months to actually having the baby and then finding out

Well no, his post was utter bollocks.

He claimed, as absolute fact, that the youngest person in Iceland with Down's Syndrome was 20. Zero evidence provided. There's no "pretty much true" here at all. He's 100% wrong.

He also claimed that "Clearly they have a cultural policy to eliminate the weakest or those who do not conform to some ideal model" despite the fact it is obvious that each case is an individual decision a) to get the test and then b) to decide whether to terminate or not.

He also then completely whiffed on the nature of Savita Halapanavar's death.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Rudi

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #670 on: May 22, 2018, 11:28:30 AM »
Irish Independent May 1st 2013. Consultants claim Irish law was not responsible for Savitas death.

The Iceland case about 20 year I read in a local newspaper.  It's false I did not know that at the time, however it's clear from numbers that Iceland aborts babies with downs. Galls man learn some manners.

gallsman

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #671 on: May 22, 2018, 11:45:11 AM »
Irish Independent May 1st 2013. Consultants claim Irish law was not responsible for Savitas death.

The Iceland case about 20 year I read in a local newspaper.  It's false I did not know that at the time, however it's clear from numbers that Iceland aborts babies with downs. Galls man learn some manners.


It was in a local newspaper? What about the Six One news that you also claimed?

As for it being wrong, I'm sure you were just waiting to verify the facts and were of course going to come on here and correct yourself?

"Iceland" does not abort anything. Individuals make the decisions.

Away and shite with your "manners" when you post such deliberate lies.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 11:57:44 AM by gallsman »
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sid waddell

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #672 on: May 22, 2018, 11:48:12 AM »
But, but, but...he doesn't know what he's talking about, or something.

The author of the investigation into Savita Halappanavarís death has reiterated his finding that she would still be alive if the Eighth Amendment did not exist.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/professor-savita-would-be-alive-today-if-not-for-8th-470954.html

Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #673 on: May 22, 2018, 01:09:20 PM »
But, but, but...he doesn't know what he's talking about, or something.

The author of the investigation into Savita Halappanavarís death has reiterated his finding that she would still be alive if the Eighth Amendment did not exist.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/professor-savita-would-be-alive-today-if-not-for-8th-470954.html

Don't worry Matty McGrath got a call from a woman doctor he knows.  He will put this "so-called-expert" straight.  Just like he explained how a few drinks make nervous drivers safer.

Our maybe that lady DJ from Spirit FM, she seemed to know a lot more about these things than Peter Boylan.

Of course Dr. Arulkumaran is being sly intervening at this late stage.  It will minimize the time available to dig dirt up to discredit him.

/Jim.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:11:34 PM by Jim_Murphy_74 »

armaghniac

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Re: Eighth Amendment poll
« Reply #674 on: May 22, 2018, 01:59:56 PM »
But, but, but...he doesn't know what he's talking about, or something.

The author of the investigation into Savita Halappanavarís death has reiterated his finding that she would still be alive if the Eighth Amendment did not exist.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/professor-savita-would-be-alive-today-if-not-for-8th-470954.html

This may or may not be true. But the Eighth Amendment now is not the same as when she did not receive proper treatment and a lot of people, including you, are attempting to give the impression that it is.
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