Author Topic: Magdalene Laundries payout.  (Read 12433 times)

T Fearon

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #180 on: July 30, 2013, 03:49:56 PM »
I am answering your point, you're just not taking cognisance. Listen, employees rights were not high on the agenda back in the 50s and 60s. People generally worked in horrible conditions for a pittance, mills, mines etc,and many are suffering the consequences now in later life (exposure to asbestos etc).

So using that criteria there are thousands upon thousands of people entitled to compensation every bit as much as the Magdalene laundries employees.

theskull1

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #181 on: July 31, 2013, 12:11:28 AM »
You know many classify Paisley as a "good man"
It’s a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

T Fearon

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #182 on: July 31, 2013, 05:16:04 AM »
He's in the House of Lords,while Muslim hate clerics are deported.

theskull1

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #183 on: July 31, 2013, 08:56:02 AM »
To many Christian people he's a good man. Using your form of argumentation that must mean he is and we should not look at any evidence to suggest otherwise. And to call a man of god a b**tard..... well!!!!....can you imagine how offensive that is to all that share his deeply held religious beliefs? He's a good man surely .....let's not look for reasons to suggest otherwise.. but sadly i know your sort....you've obviously got it in for prods
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BarryBreensBandage

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #184 on: July 31, 2013, 11:06:36 AM »
The crux of the matter is that I believe Sean Brady to be a decent humble pious man,whose pastoral service should not be judged in any way by one incident nearly 40 years ago,when he acted within the rules of his Church,when no one knew the extent of the widespread abuse, and in which he had no hand or part.He neither suppressed the allegations (unproven when has made aware of them) or attempted to distort them.

None of us know the full extent of the investigation,as I presume none of us actually participated in it,therefore I'm not going to swallow the spin of a biased and prejudiced media,on this or any other issue.

Also,I do believe there is a substantial anti catholic viewpoint on this board (some sick person rejoiced in the burning of St Mels Cathedral a few years ago) that would not be out of sync with the Orange Order.

But....Sean Brady, when first challenged on his role in the whole cover up in 2010, made his argument that he was not responsible for the individuals involved, and stated he would resign if further evidence came to light that his and the church actions at the time had resulted in further abuse.

Last year, 27 cases of abuse were investigated and reported due to the direct actions taken at the time and guess what? He didn't resign. Did he promise this in 2010 to get himself through a rough patch?

So, leaving all responsibility and wrongdoing in the seventies aside, he is not a man of his word, and his integrity is zero.
"Some people say I am indecisive..... maybe I am, maybe I'm not".

Lar Naparka

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #185 on: July 31, 2013, 11:29:13 AM »
I am answering your point, you're just not taking cognisance. Listen, employees rights were not high on the agenda back in the 50s and 60s. People generally worked in horrible conditions for a pittance, mills, mines etc,and many are suffering the consequences now in later life (exposure to asbestos etc).

So using that criteria there are thousands upon thousands of people entitled to compensation every bit as much as the Magdalene laundries employees.

FFS, Tony; here you go again!
I do take due cognisance of what you have to say.
The problem is that what you have to say here is BS!

Listen, employees rights were not high on the agenda back in the 50s and 60s.

They certainly weren’t but what’s that got to do with the topic?
You are comparing “employees” to prisoners.

People generally worked in horrible conditions for a pittance, mills, mines etc,

They sure did but, once again, what has that got to do with the plight of those who were incarcerated by the holy nuns?
They weren’t working for a pittance. They were working for sweet FA.

many are suffering the consequences now in later life (exposure to asbestos etc).

They are indeed but a legal precedent has been set in the republic.
Anyone who can prove that he/she was suffered any injuries or debilities of a general nature because of negligence on the part of their employers can pursue a case for redress through the courts.
However, the case must be taken against the employers in question and not the state or any other entity/agency.
That doesn’t mean that a case may not be brought against the state under any circumstances. 

All of this came about as a result of claims made by a large number of ex-soldiers about 12 years ago who claimed that their hearing had been permanently impaired when they were forced to operate artillery in training exercises without the protection of ear muffs.

The Dept. of Defence pleaded innocence in this case claiming that officers in charge were unaware of the potential consequences of such manoeuvres.
The Dept. also tried to peddle the line of bullshit that you are using here: Every worker had a hard time: social conscience wasn’t the same back them etc. etc.
However, it was held that the soldiers’ commanding officers refused to hand out the ear muffs because they wanted to save money by not having to buy them.
Ergo, the state was negligent and had to cough up.
So, any of the workers you feel were exploited in some way back in the Magdalene laundry days can seek damages from their employers. (That is, if the employers are still around.)
The (un)holy nuns are still around; the state is still around and the latter has admitted its culpability and coughed up.
The Mickey dodgers may have to be pursued through the courts to prise some of the money they got through immoral and illegal means out of their grasping hands.
They can run but they can’t hide.
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An Gaeilgoir

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #186 on: July 31, 2013, 01:00:27 PM »
I am answering your point, you're just not taking cognisance. Listen, employees rights were not high on the agenda back in the 50s and 60s. People generally worked in horrible conditions for a pittance, mills, mines etc,and many are suffering the consequences now in later life (exposure to asbestos etc).

So using that criteria there are thousands upon thousands of people entitled to compensation every bit as much as the Magdalene laundries employees.

FFS, Tony; here you go again!
I do take due cognisance of what you have to say.
The problem is that what you have to say here is BS!

Listen, employees rights were not high on the agenda back in the 50s and 60s.

They certainly weren’t but what’s that got to do with the topic?
You are comparing “employees” to prisoners.

People generally worked in horrible conditions for a pittance, mills, mines etc,

They sure did but, once again, what has that got to do with the plight of those who were incarcerated by the holy nuns?
They weren’t working for a pittance. They were working for sweet FA.

many are suffering the consequences now in later life (exposure to asbestos etc).

They are indeed but a legal precedent has been set in the republic.
Anyone who can prove that he/she was suffered any injuries or debilities of a general nature because of negligence on the part of their employers can pursue a case for redress through the courts.
However, the case must be taken against the employers in question and not the state or any other entity/agency.
That doesn’t mean that a case may not be brought against the state under any circumstances. 

All of this came about as a result of claims made by a large number of ex-soldiers about 12 years ago who claimed that their hearing had been permanently impaired when they were forced to operate artillery in training exercises without the protection of ear muffs.

The Dept. of Defence pleaded innocence in this case claiming that officers in charge were unaware of the potential consequences of such manoeuvres.
The Dept. also tried to peddle the line of bullshit that you are using here: Every worker had a hard time: social conscience wasn’t the same back them etc. etc.
However, it was held that the soldiers’ commanding officers refused to hand out the ear muffs because they wanted to save money by not having to buy them.
Ergo, the state was negligent and had to cough up.
So, any of the workers you feel were exploited in some way back in the Magdalene laundry days can seek damages from their employers. (That is, if the employers are still around.)
The (un)holy nuns are still around; the state is still around and the latter has admitted its culpability and coughed up.
The Mickey dodgers may have to be pursued through the courts to prise some of the money they got through immoral and illegal means out of their grasping hands.
They can run but they can’t hide.

Bang on.........
The "Holy" orders have plenty of assets here, maybe there is a case for CAB to get involved, as these assets are the proceeds of a crime..............

An example close to home, Cluain Caitriona in Castlebar, a state of the art nursing home, built by the nuns and now been run by a private company, i wonder who benefits from the profits been made there?
There are i believe 10 nuns been looked after there, the rest private patients.

deiseach

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #187 on: July 31, 2013, 02:00:32 PM »
The gist of Fearon's attitude seems to be the same as Hermann Goering during his trial at Nuremburg. i.e. we were the legitimate government of Germany at the time and don't have to account for our actions to people who murdered in the millions or locked up hundreds of thousands of its own citizens without trial for years. This position does have a certain logic to it, and any attempt to break it down could fall foul of Godwin's Law. The problem with this defence is that the law in Ireland at the time did not permit slavery or indentured servitude. People were given into the care of the Magdalene laundries with the expectation that they'd be given a roof over their head, three square meals a day, have the chance to learn productive skills, and leave as soon as they were ready. Even by the standards of the time the Magdalene laundries were a disgrace, and everyone knew it. My grandmother had great time for a neighbour of hers, and it was only in the last couple of years that I was told the story that was at the heart of this respect. He married a woman who was a widow and who had been left so destitute by the death of her husband that the children had to go into the Good Shepherd (ha!) in Waterford. Straight after the wedding, the neighbour in question went to the Good Shepherd and took the children home where he raised them as his own. It was an act of true charity, and even at the time everyone around them knew that these children had been saved from a ghastly life. God knows how many others were not so lucky, and the least the State that tolerated such atrocities in contravention of its own laws can do is give them some restitution for the horrors visited upon them.

T Fearon

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #188 on: July 31, 2013, 02:36:04 PM »
Skull I will call a b**tard (ie someone who makes false allegations and causes further unnecessary distress to an old lady who already has had more than her fair share in losing three sons at the hands of gunmen, no doubt whipped up into a frenzy by the same b**tard's hate preaching) a b**tard, no matter how many people deem him to be "good and holy", if the evidence merits such an appellation.

Deiseach, the point is that it wasn't the present government or taxpayers who were responsible for this treatment, so why should they apologise or current tax payers make restitution. Also there are a lot of other factors prevalent at the time but long since gone, such as atonement for sins through punishment (ie nuns probably were acting in the best interests of the laundry workers, although they were misguided), also what about the parents who put them in these places in the first place, effectively washing their hands of them?

Eamonnca1

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #189 on: July 31, 2013, 06:13:52 PM »
Try this little thought experiment, Tony. Does today's British government have any business apologizing for Bloody Sunday?

T Fearon

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #190 on: July 31, 2013, 07:26:22 PM »
Given that the perpetrators are still alive,today 's British Government should go about the business of prosecuting them.

Eamonnca1

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #191 on: July 31, 2013, 09:19:05 PM »
I rest my case

johnneycool

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #192 on: August 01, 2013, 01:27:22 PM »
http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/the-hell-of-bethany-house-one-mans-story-238365.html

The hell of Bethany House: One man's story

Wednesday, July 31, 2013

At 31, Paul Graham found out he was adopted. Years later he found out more. Today he’s an angry man, writesDanielle McGrane
By Danielle McGrane
PAUL GRAHAM is angry: “I was born in that home through no fault of my own. I was abused in that State and the State was supposed to be regulating that, and they didn’t.”

Graham was 31 when he learned he had been adopted, but it was years before he knew the circumstances. was able to put all the pieces of his life’s puzzle together. “I used to cry when I saw kids being abused on the TV and I couldn’t understand why it affected me so much. My doctor also said my leaking heart valve was a sign I’d had malnutrition as a child, and my yellow teeth were a sign I hadn’t been getting the right stuff,” he says.

After Paul had emigrated from his native Belfast to Sydney in Australia, he began investigating his past. He had been born to a single mother in Dublin’s Bethany House.

“I was told, when I was applying for my passport to come to Australia, that I wasn’t a British citizen, just a British ‘subject’. It wasn’t until I found out I had been born in Bethany House that this made sense,” he says.

Graham, 74, is in the early stages of dementia, but recounts lucidly his childhood and the many awakenings he experienced along the way throughout his life. “My long-term memory is fine, I just can’t tell you what I had for dinner last night,” he says.

Paul’s journey of discovery began when he joined Alcoholics Anonymous. He drank to enter a sort of fantasy world, as a form of escape. “I wasn’t like other kids. I was always frightened. My adopted mother was a terrible woman. She ran a flower shop and had a car — a big deal in those days — but spent her time drinking. She used to get drunk all the time and she would beat me. At about 12 years old, she would wake me up at 1am to go out and get her whiskey. My father was bedridden, but my mother was about 30 years younger than him.”

Like many others who began their life in Bethany House, Paul was sexually abused as a child after he was adopted, Before he joined the Navy, he was sexually abused by an acquaintance of his mother’s. “He was a strong Protestant, went to his church every day, but that didn’t stop him doing what he did to me.”

The man has since died and Paul says it would be unfair to do anything about it now. “It wouldn’t be fair on his family. I often thought about it throughout my life. It ruined my life. It was always there. But I just thought ‘what do you do with these people?’ I haven’t spoken about it with my wife and kids. I think it would be hard for them, too,” he says.

At the age of 14, Paul sought his escape and joined the navy. His wife, Hilary, was a cigarette packer and they began as penpals, when Paul was 17, eventually marrying when he was 21. “She was the only person who ever loved me,” he says. They lived together in Belfast and had three children, but struggled. Drink had taken hold of his life.

“By the time we came out to Australia, with our three kids, I was 31.”

Paul worked in a sawdust factory, but spent his free time drinking, to shut out the horrors of his childhood.

“I kept getting picked up by the police and I dried out in the hospital on a fair few occasions. But, on one hospital visit, I met a guy, who got me going to AA,” he says.

Paul sobered up, got a well-paid job in a chemical factory and focused on doing work within his community. He was elected to the local council, in Mascot, a suburb of Sydney.

“I got elected as deputy mayor here — and I was the first non-Australian elected to the local council,” he says.

While it seemed on the outside that things were going well for Paul, his feelings of emptiness hadn’t subsided. “I just kept crying if I saw children being abused on TV. So I went to my doctor and he told me to see a psychologist. The psychologist said to me ‘I’m going to tell you now, you were abused as a baby, whether sexually or physically, I don’t know’.” His doctor backed this up, saying his leaking heart valve was probably a sign he had malnutrition or consumption as a child.”

In 1986, Paul hired a lawyer in Sydney who began delving. Through an organisation called PACT, Paul found out about his family. “My mother was 24 and employed in domestic service when she was sent down south to Bethany House to have me. It seemed, at the time, Bethany House was the kind of place where you could just pick up any baby if you wanted to adopt one,” he says.

PACT said Paul’s then found out, through the agency, that he had an aunt who wanted to meet him, though his birth mother was dead, and that his aunt wanted to meet him. “I travelled to the offices of PACT in Dublin, and they told me I could pick up the phone to my aunt straight away. It was great.”

Paul began to find out who he was, and where he came from. “I knew I was born in a place called Bethany House, so when I was researching it on the internet, I came across Derek Leinster, the chairperson of the Bethany Survivors Group, who had also been born there, around the same time as me.”

“Derek started to write to me and I started to remember some things about the place — about feeling starving — and I kept having flashbacks. I reckon I spent four years there now, because I can remember, briefly, flashbacks to the long rooms with rows of beds. Something happened in the Bethany Home, which I couldn’t remember, but my doctor told me that and my psychologist told me that — it made me understand why I was the way I was. I ended up in a bloody mess — there had to be a reason for it,” he says

Paul found out more about Bethany House and the fact that 219 babies born there were found buried in unmarked graves in Mount Jerome cemetery three years ago.

“I want the Government to build a memorial for those kids. We were under the care of the State,” he says. “It was supposed to be regulated. This man came out from the Department of Social Services every month and wrote glowing reports, yet 219 kids died. I was born in that home, through no fault of my own. The State was supposed to be regulating that and they didn’t.”

The government offer of modest funding for a memorial for the victims of Bethany House, and the decision not to introduce a redress scheme for survivors, has incensed Paul. He isn’t looking for compensation, but an acknowledgement, and justice for Derek, who has been championing their cause. “I thought the language was absolutely disgusting to say the word ‘modest’. It really upset me,” he says.

“I really think it’s the Protestant/Catholic thing again. It’s the Government saying ‘We’ll do it for the Catholics, but not for the Protestants’. We should probably start a class action against the State and the Church,” he says.

“Even if they said ‘yes, there were problems there, we will erect a memorial’ ... it’s just that word ‘modest’.”

Paul knows he was one of the lucky ones, having survived, but he wants recognition that he was failed by the State and acknowledgement for those who tragically lost their lives. “I thought I was part of the State of Ireland,” he says.

“It’s very upsetting, and upsetting for Derek, who has worked all these years on this.”

© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

219 kids that we know about dying in state care tells you all you need to know about these places.

muppet

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #193 on: September 04, 2013, 08:06:13 PM »
Given that the perpetrators are still alive,today 's British Government should go about the business of prosecuting them.

The Brits would have given Fermanagh and Tyrone back, if they could have used oaths of secrecy to cover up Bloody Sunday.
MWWSI 2017

seafoid

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Re: Magdalene Laundries payout.
« Reply #194 on: June 05, 2018, 10:54:46 AM »
There is a big shindig for the Magdalene ladies this weekend

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/our-identities-were-taken-we-were-locked-up-our-hair-was-cut-short-our-names-were-taken-survivors-of-the-magdalene-laundry-36978216.html


Survivors from the UK, USA, Australia, and Ireland, will meet President Michael D Higgins at Áras an Uachtaráin today for a special reception, before going to Dublin's Mansion House for a gala dinner and entertainment, including a performance from Christy Moore, Philomena Begley and Dana. Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan and Lord Mayor of Dublin, Michéal MacDonnchadh, will also attend.

Dragons' Den star and ambassador for Dublin Honours Magdalenes Norah Casey said: "It's been a challenge to get them all to Ireland.


"Some didn't have passports, no email or computers, some had no landlines, or mobile phones."
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