Author Topic: Paddy Jackson apology  (Read 32181 times)

seafoid

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #405 on: April 16, 2018, 08:11:10 PM »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0416/954927-clermont-rule-out-move-for-paddy-jackson/

Meanwhile, French champions Clermont Auvergne have ruled out recruiting Jackson, saying speculation they wanted to sign the former Ulster and Ireland out-half was "false information".

The reigning Top 14 champions are one of a number of clubs linked with Jackson since the cancellation of his Ulster and IRFU contract over the weekend.

"The Irish out-half will not come," head coach Franck Azéma told the club's website.

"There is no contact between Paddy Jackson and the club and no desire on our part to engage his services.

"I trust our workforce in this position where we do not lack resources with Camille Lopez, Patricio Fernandez, Ice Toeava and Dorian Lavernhe...

"With the constraints imposed by the salary cap, it is not possible to strengthen the position of out-half, where the internal solutions are numerous. "

On Sunday, English side Exeter denied reports linking them with a move for Olding.

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michaelg

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #406 on: April 16, 2018, 08:20:29 PM »
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance. 

« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:29:39 PM by michaelg »

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #407 on: April 16, 2018, 09:11:39 PM »
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

sid waddell

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #408 on: April 16, 2018, 10:07:46 PM »
Paddy Jackson for Clermont according to the Sunday Times.

Olding to Exeter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-5616367/Paddy-Jackson-struggles-new-club-despite-cut-price-deal.html#comments-5616367

The 25-cap No 10 has also been touted around France, but several English clubs have already turned down his services.

‘Even though he was found not guilty, it would take a brave club to sign him,’ one director of rugby told the Mail on Sunday.

‘He’s been offered everywhere but a family club wouldn’t want to be associated with those messages

Clermont must not be a family club

I guess it turns out they are...

moysider

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #409 on: April 16, 2018, 11:20:32 PM »
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.

Main Street

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #410 on: April 17, 2018, 12:19:14 AM »
As has already been mentioned he wasn't charged with rape. He didn't leave a girl bleeding and distressed. And I believe he has been sanctioned in some way, just not sacked.

I shouldn't have said saddos - I apologise.

These men have been presumed innocent of accusations of sexual assault and rape from the moment and unanimously found not guilty by a jury of their peers of the same charges. They are and cannot be disciplined for any of those charges legally. If you don't understand that you disqualify yourself from being take seriously in these debates.

These two men have been sacked because their employers have an ethical issue with how they conduct their private lives - pure and simple. That is a very dangerous precedent as they now have to follow it up. It's a very good job that the IRFU don't apply these standards retrospectively or, for example, one of the world's best half backs would be out on his ear also.

Where else is this moral code to be applied? How about employees who take performance enhancing drugs? What about players who take recreational drugs or use legal narcotics in doses that induce well being effects? What about Ulster players who are members of the Orange Order? Drink driving offences? Slapping their children?

Pandora's box is opened and you can be sure that every personal indiscretion of IRFU employees going forward will be throw on the altar for moral judgement.


You do understand there's a difference between when someone maintains they gave consent and another person maintains they did not give consent - do you?

As we're aware of, the bar for a criminal conviction is very high as it should be. Not being convicted doesn't mean their behaviour was fine. They knew this girl was upset at the very least. They brought this on themselves with their actions. Any sympathy for them is grossly misplaced.

Legally, charges that they have been found not guilty of cannot be used as part of their dismissal - surely you grasp that? The trial cannot be used as part of the IRFU's reasoning.

This is very clear - irrespective of how much smoke and dust that is kicked up around it - these two players have been sacked because of how they conduct themselves in their personal lives irrespective of those actions being perfectly legal.
That is simply not true.  I don't know why this line continues to be pedalled out.


Exactly. Completely untrue. I wouldn't mind but it's not even that far back on this thread where it has been stated that in other professions people are let go if they get arrested.


Just because you repeat something that doesn't make it true

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2018/0414/954460-stuart-olding-paddy-jackson/

In a statement, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said: "In arriving at this decision, the IRFU and Ulster Rugby said they acknowledged their responsibility and commitment to the core values of the game - respect, inclusivity and integrity."

There is no mention of the court case. The IRFU could have interviewed witnesses, examined testimony, etc. but they didn't - they made a decision on these contracts based on a commitment to the core values of the game as they see them - which they are perfectly entitled to do.

The problem they have now is that every employee has to be held stringently to the the same core values.
I fully expect the rugby legends that have a contract with the IRFU, are required to hold to the core values.  Why do you think they have to be "stringently" holding to the core values? Where do pull this "stringent" word from?  It would appear to me that those 2 rugby lads deviated so far from the core values that their admitted behavior was taken to task and adjudicated upon. Stringent was not an issue.
Is it not obvious that not being deemed to be falling foul of the law does not necessarily whitewash one's actions. The law does not arbitrate what is morality, it never has, nor does the criteria for establishing guilt in a court arbitrate how any association can legally set up their own constitution and ethical standards.
Now homosexuality is legal, was it immoral before the law was changed?
.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:27:44 AM by Main Street »

michaelg

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #411 on: April 17, 2018, 07:16:13 AM »
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.
Overall, I would tend to agree with you, but working for the IRFU/ Ulster Rugby is not the same as working for Tesco.  Given the higher expectations regarding a "moral code", the Rugby authorities need to work harder to ensure that players area aware of, and adhere to these higher standards demanded of them.  Particulary when they enter their system at such a young age.

seafoid

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #412 on: April 17, 2018, 08:17:01 AM »
Quote from Shane Logan below:

"We have done a lot of good work with players in terms of role modelling and we have got to keep building in that, reviewing on that to reduce the chances of players making bad decisions in future," he said.

They have clearly not done enough.  Given that both players were brought through the Academy from a formative age, I think it's interesting how Ulster Rugby are not prepared to take any responsibility for the development of the charactor of players such as Jackson and Olding. If they had, perhaps they may be more open to the old-fashioned idea of giving someone a second chance.

The problem lies with the issue of having an 'Academy' in that it is based on selecting the elite, taking them apart from their peers and giving them the belief that they are special.  A recipe for disaster.

I dunno. I think it is unfair to blame an 'Academy' for wayward behaviour of young adults in their private lives. At the end of the day the responsibility is with the individual. Should the families of those lads - that supported them to the hilt during the trial - be blamed. I don't think so either.
Overall, I would tend to agree with you, but working for the IRFU/ Ulster Rugby is not the same as working for Tesco.  Given the higher expectations regarding a "moral code", the Rugby authorities need to work harder to ensure that players area aware of, and adhere to these higher standards demanded of them.  Particulary when they enter their system at such a young age.
This was also a learning experience for the IRFU which is still in many ways amateur.
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seafoid

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Orchard park

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #414 on: April 17, 2018, 10:33:15 AM »
seafoid, the argument has long been that soccer and rugby are professional sports run by complete amateurs, while GAA is the reverse

seafoid

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #415 on: April 17, 2018, 10:34:46 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-saga-of-jackson-and-olding-a-salutary-warning-1.3462244

"Addressing text messages sent by Olding to friends after the events of the night in question, boasting about “spit-roasting”, his counsel, Frank O’Donoghue QC said they were nothing but “a titillating sideshow and they have no evidential value in relation to my client in this case”. He said Mr Olding was simply “bragging in the privacy of his own phone”.

They may have been a titillating sideshow in relation to the criminal case, and they may have been exchanged in the privacy of Olding’s and others’ own phones, but once they were made public it was clear their careers in Irish rugby were over."
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seafoid

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #416 on: April 17, 2018, 10:36:21 AM »
seafoid, the argument has long been that soccer and rugby are professional sports run by complete amateurs, while GAA is the reverse
Orchard Park,

The GAA can be quite sloppy when public opinion has moved beyond official procedure too.
I think institutional competence is a national weakness. 
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haranguerer

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #417 on: April 17, 2018, 10:45:59 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/paddy-jackson-will-never-play-for-ireland-again-says-ulster-rugby-head-1.3463699

He didn't say that at all. There really does need to be tighter controls on the media, they just say any old shite in headlines regardless of the article


Minder

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Re: Paddy Jackson apology
« Reply #419 on: April 17, 2018, 10:50:20 PM »
Not sure there is anything more to say here
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