Author Topic: UK v Russia  (Read 7317 times)

Itchy

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Re: Uk v Russis
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 04:15:31 PM »
What do people think of this? The UK seemed to have reached conclusions long before anything has been proven. Woe betide anybody who doesn't weigh in behind the jingoistic Government line. The rapidity & rashness  of the response is worrying imo. Boris and the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson 2 utter clowns as per normal.

Youíre off your tits if you think it wasnít Putin. Even the Russian scientist who help develop the nerve agents thinks itís absurd a non-State actor could have carried out the attempted assassination - itís incredibly hard to weaponise this stuff.

The thread should read the West v. Russia and the OP should not contain the nonsense of yet more Brit bashing. Not the topic to be trying those tired old tricks on.

Putin has some serious contempt for democracy and the West to be so brazen in assassinating another countryís citizen again. Russia are a shÔtshow.

You don't believe the Brits and others are capable of dirty tricks? The guys who sent the SAS into Ireland and said they didnt. The guys who helped murder many irish people in Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The people who discovered weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and used this evidence to start a war resulting in countless deaths - Disgusting spooks. You'd just believe anything  they release to the press?

Personally I dont know what to believe but I have to say I find it a bit odd. If i were Russian head of KGB and I wanted this double agent dead would Id have him shot, stabbed, kidnapped and buried in concrete? I would not poison him with a bizarrre & rare nerve agent that was developed and used only in Russia so I could make sure that my country would be suspected when the murder happened. Perhaps the KGB are really really stupid? Who knows the truth but I wouldnt  believe anything British "intelligence" feeds to the dumb press and the even dumber general public.

I beleive the Brits are very capable of dirty tricks. This isnít really about the dirt under their fingernails, though. Itís that Russia are on another level with this James Bonds-esque spycraft.

Be it Syria, Trump, Europe or the Ukraine theyíve had their hand in so much dirt recently that itís reached a point where they have no benefit of the doubt, not that there really is much doubt on this one. The sheer arrogance that they would make this attempted asssisnation with something so easily traceable back to them shows how little fŻcks they have about democratic norms or even avoiding annoying their trade partners or forcing them to take action. Who else gained anything from assassinating a defected Russian spy but Putinís Russia? And who else even has the weaponised version of this nerve agent?

That's the point you simply do not know who could gain from it. Who might gain from sanctions on Russia?

Minder

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 05:26:08 PM »
Corbyn making a fool out of himself again
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

Syferus

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Re: Uk v Russis
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 05:37:28 PM »
What do people think of this? The UK seemed to have reached conclusions long before anything has been proven. Woe betide anybody who doesn't weigh in behind the jingoistic Government line. The rapidity & rashness  of the response is worrying imo. Boris and the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson 2 utter clowns as per normal.

Youíre off your tits if you think it wasnít Putin. Even the Russian scientist who help develop the nerve agents thinks itís absurd a non-State actor could have carried out the attempted assassination - itís incredibly hard to weaponise this stuff.

The thread should read the West v. Russia and the OP should not contain the nonsense of yet more Brit bashing. Not the topic to be trying those tired old tricks on.

Putin has some serious contempt for democracy and the West to be so brazen in assassinating another countryís citizen again. Russia are a shÔtshow.

You don't believe the Brits and others are capable of dirty tricks? The guys who sent the SAS into Ireland and said they didnt. The guys who helped murder many irish people in Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The people who discovered weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and used this evidence to start a war resulting in countless deaths - Disgusting spooks. You'd just believe anything  they release to the pre :)ss?

Personally I dont know what to believe but I have to say I find it a bit odd. If i were Russian head of KGB and I wanted this double agent dead would Id have him shot, stabbed, kidnapped and buried in concrete? I would not poison him with a bizarrre & rare nerve agent that was developed and used only in Russia so I could make sure that my country would be suspected when the murder happened. Perhaps the KGB are really really stupid? Who knows the truth but I wouldnt  believe anything British "intelligence" feeds to the dumb press and the even dumber general public.

I beleive the Brits are very capable of dirty tricks. This isnít really about the dirt under their fingernails, though. Itís that Russia are on another level with this James Bonds-esque spycraft.

Be it Syria, Trump, Europe or the Ukraine theyíve had their hand in so much dirt recently that itís reached a point where they have no benefit of the doubt, not that there really is much doubt on this one. The sheer arrogance that they would make this attempted asssisnation with something so easily traceable back to them shows how little fŻcks they have about democratic norms or even avoiding annoying their trade partners or forcing them to take action. Who else gained anything from assassinating a defected Russian spy but Putinís Russia? And who else even has the weaponised version of this nerve agent?

That's the point you simply do not know who could gain from it. Who might gain from sanctions on Russia?

But what has been achieved bar the sabre-rattling of deporting a few bureaucrats? And that still doesnít answer who else even has the means to weaponise the nerve agent - the scientist who worked on this type of stuff for the Russian government the that I mentioned earlier said even he wouldnít know how to do that.

When Russia are just throwing up their hands denying it and not offering any evidence to the contrary or saying that their weaponised nerve agents have been stolen or compromised itís hard to not believe the most obvious answer to the this question.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 06:05:52 PM by Syferus »

Smokin Joe

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 05:44:46 PM »
I care not for Corbyn or Brit bashing, but I'd be a very short priced backer of Russia ordering the killing.

Either that, or people who cross Putin tend to be seriously unlucky in later life.

sid waddell

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 06:42:53 PM »
Putin is a murderous, imperialist tyrant. Hits like this are his meat and drink.

And I'd vote for Corbyn and Labour were I in the UK, by the way.

Tony Baloney

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2018, 06:58:47 PM »
Come on lads wise up, Putin all over this. Somebody said it could be the Russian Mafia as if Putin is unconnected to them!

Esmarelda

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2018, 07:17:40 PM »
Funny enough if you follow UK politics on this board you'd know I'm not in anyway a fan of Corbyn, so barking up the wrong tree again.

Also, if you read my opening post you'd realise I haven't in anyway said Russia are innocent, it's the UK Government's actions / reactions that I'm questioning. It's like a PR war being hastily waged by a flailing & failing Government and dissenting voices are being demonised.
Don't you know that doing that makes you an agent of the Kremlin? You have to pick a side benny and you better do it quick before a few more suss this thread is open.

Itchy

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2018, 08:16:36 PM »
Martin mcguinness was armed in bloody Sunday and ira fired first shirs. Plenty believed that. I find it amazing people will believe a story like this without considering it could be a set up

sid waddell

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2018, 08:22:19 PM »
I'd be interested to read a defence of Putin and the Russian regime that doesn't resort to whataboutery or deflection.

One that, you know, deals with the reality of what Putin and Russian regime are and what Putin and the Russian regime do.

We won't get that, because to defend Putin and Russia, you have to deny reality.

Itchy

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2018, 08:53:03 PM »
I'd be interested to read a defence of Putin and the Russian regime that doesn't resort to whataboutery or deflection.

One that, you know, deals with the reality of what Putin and Russian regime are and what Putin and the Russian regime do.

We won't get that, because to defend Putin and Russia, you have to deny reality.

I'm not defending any regime but if you just accept what British intelligence says without question you are thick

Keyser soze

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2018, 11:14:16 PM »
Funny enough if you follow UK politics on this board you'd know I'm not in anyway a fan of Corbyn, so barking up the wrong tree again.

Also, if you read my opening post you'd realise I haven't in anyway said Russia are innocent, it's the UK Government's actions / reactions that I'm questioning. It's like a PR war being hastily waged by a flailing & failing Government and dissenting voices are being demonised.

I think Corbyn is a better alternative to May and the Tories which is why I think itís even sadder that he played into the worst perceptions about himself. What he did was more damaging than saying nothing at all.

Russia have been engaging in a proxy war with the West for years - ffs, they helped that cowboy in America get elected and have been implicated in many hacks of governmental organisations and large corperations. Forget about PR wars - the West have let Russia get away with being a bad actor for too long because we donít want the hassle of a trade or energy war.

There should be no descent on the fact that Russia is behind the attack - everything points towards that. But that wonít stop people using their biases and to justify ignoring the evidence because they donít like the injured party. This is bigger than the Tories v the Left or even the UK v Russia. Itís western values versus Russian lies and violence.

I would like to descent!!

If I do would that constitute a climbdown?

Maybe in future u should stick to smaller words that u understand!

Syferus

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2018, 11:15:18 PM »
Funny enough if you follow UK politics on this board you'd know I'm not in anyway a fan of Corbyn, so barking up the wrong tree again.

Also, if you read my opening post you'd realise I haven't in anyway said Russia are innocent, it's the UK Government's actions / reactions that I'm questioning. It's like a PR war being hastily waged by a flailing & failing Government and dissenting voices are being demonised.

I think Corbyn is a better alternative to May and the Tories which is why I think itís even sadder that he played into the worst perceptions about himself. What he did was more damaging than saying nothing at all.

Russia have been engaging in a proxy war with the West for years - ffs, they helped that cowboy in America get elected and have been implicated in many hacks of governmental organisations and large corperations. Forget about PR wars - the West have let Russia get away with being a bad actor for too long because we donít want the hassle of a trade or energy war.

There should be no descent on the fact that Russia is behind the attack - everything points towards that. But that wonít stop people using their biases and to justify ignoring the evidence because they donít like the injured party. This is bigger than the Tories v the Left or even the UK v Russia. Itís western values versus Russian lies and violence.

I would like to descent!!

If I do would that constitute a climbdown?

Maybe in future u should stick to smaller words that u understand!

Like Ďuí?

Itís called predictive text, bud.

Esmarelda

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2018, 11:16:09 PM »
What do people think of this? The UK seemed to have reached conclusions long before anything has been proven. Woe betide anybody who doesn't weigh in behind the jingoistic Government line. The rapidity & rashness  of the response is worrying imo. Boris and the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson 2 utter clowns as per normal.
For balance  ;D ;D ;D ;D here's the view from Russia. WARNING, may contain whataboutery

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/03/zakharova-completely-rubbishes-britains-anti-russian-campaign-in-must-see-video/

Itchy

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2018, 07:44:13 AM »
What do people think of this? The UK seemed to have reached conclusions long before anything has been proven. Woe betide anybody who doesn't weigh in behind the jingoistic Government line. The rapidity & rashness  of the response is worrying imo. Boris and the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson 2 utter clowns as per normal.
For balance  ;D ;D ;D ;D here's the view from Russia. WARNING, may contain whataboutery

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/03/zakharova-completely-rubbishes-britains-anti-russian-campaign-in-must-see-video/

Russian propaganda vrs British propaganda. Both the same to me.

imtommygunn

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Re: UK v Russia
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2018, 09:59:07 AM »
What do people think of this? The UK seemed to have reached conclusions long before anything has been proven. Woe betide anybody who doesn't weigh in behind the jingoistic Government line. The rapidity & rashness  of the response is worrying imo. Boris and the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson 2 utter clowns as per normal.
For balance  ;D ;D ;D ;D here's the view from Russia. WARNING, may contain whataboutery

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/03/zakharova-completely-rubbishes-britains-anti-russian-campaign-in-must-see-video/

Russian propaganda vrs British propaganda. Both the same to me.

Precisely itchy.

I almost wonder is it a tory plot to sink corbyn. The brits have really jumped the gun on this. Are they 100 percent sure it was the russians? I don't know that they are.