Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 145147 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2085 on: March 13, 2018, 05:32:55 PM »
The 3 top shaggers were all extremely drunk.

They remind me of a song by Arab Strap

"How am I supposed to walk you home
When you're at least fifty feet ahead?
'Cause you walked off in a huff
And I'm that pissed I can't remember what it was I said"

https://youtu.be/wX4WRlsl6fo

A lot of their replies were post fact or on how they would have behaved if they were as they imagine themselves while sober  and there was no coherence between the 3 .

Put three drunks at a party and you’ll not get the same stories at all every time!
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

StGallsGAA

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2086 on: March 13, 2018, 06:54:03 PM »
Was chatting to the brother in-law who's a solicitor and he was saying by now the jury will have already made their mind up and the arguments at the end wont make a big difference.. for him, having 9 lads on the jury is crazy and they might be aquitted on that..

I think there's more than a reasonable doubt where their guilt is involved, so who knows

The gender bias on the jury seems extraordinary, although clearly doesnt guarantee getting off as there's definitely more than a few lads on here who would convict based on what they heard (and one who'd convict before he heard anything!).

David, do you have an explanation as to why it's not 50/50 or at least 5/7 ?
Do you have to be in the workforce to get called? Maybe stay-at-home parents would be out of the net given they need to be at home for their children

Juries are picked randomly by the court clerk. The defence and prosecution can challenge with or without cause.  Everyone is expected to do jury service apart from members of the security forces, those within the legal profession and people with certain criminal convictions I think

And teachers.

Is that cos they're considered too f***ng stupid to understand a legal argument?

hardstation

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2087 on: March 13, 2018, 07:48:38 PM »
Was chatting to the brother in-law who's a solicitor and he was saying by now the jury will have already made their mind up and the arguments at the end wont make a big difference.. for him, having 9 lads on the jury is crazy and they might be aquitted on that..

I think there's more than a reasonable doubt where their guilt is involved, so who knows

The gender bias on the jury seems extraordinary, although clearly doesnt guarantee getting off as there's definitely more than a few lads on here who would convict based on what they heard (and one who'd convict before he heard anything!).

David, do you have an explanation as to why it's not 50/50 or at least 5/7 ?
Do you have to be in the workforce to get called? Maybe stay-at-home parents would be out of the net given they need to be at home for their children

Juries are picked randomly by the court clerk. The defence and prosecution can challenge with or without cause.  Everyone is expected to do jury service apart from members of the security forces, those within the legal profession and people with certain criminal convictions I think

And teachers.

Is that cos they're considered too f***ng stupid to understand a legal argument?
Sounds like work.


mrdeeds

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2088 on: March 13, 2018, 08:04:20 PM »
Was chatting to the brother in-law who's a solicitor and he was saying by now the jury will have already made their mind up and the arguments at the end wont make a big difference.. for him, having 9 lads on the jury is crazy and they might be aquitted on that..

I think there's more than a reasonable doubt where their guilt is involved, so who knows

The gender bias on the jury seems extraordinary, although clearly doesnt guarantee getting off as there's definitely more than a few lads on here who would convict based on what they heard (and one who'd convict before he heard anything!).

David, do you have an explanation as to why it's not 50/50 or at least 5/7 ?
Do you have to be in the workforce to get called? Maybe stay-at-home parents would be out of the net given they need to be at home for their children

Juries are picked randomly by the court clerk. The defence and prosecution can challenge with or without cause.  Everyone is expected to do jury service apart from members of the security forces, those within the legal profession and people with certain criminal convictions I think

And teachers.

Is that cos they're considered too f***ng stupid to understand a legal argument?
Sounds like work.

Primary school teachers.

Jeepers Creepers

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2089 on: March 13, 2018, 09:40:00 PM »
Harrison the only one to keep his trousers on and could well be the only one done for his charge.

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2090 on: March 13, 2018, 09:49:20 PM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

Jeepers Creepers

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2091 on: March 13, 2018, 09:55:50 PM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2092 on: March 13, 2018, 10:01:41 PM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

Why would charges be dropped even if the worst happens and the other three are acquitted? I think you’ve been watching too much Judge Rinder.

Hound

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2093 on: March 13, 2018, 10:05:42 PM »

Quite the opposite in fact, every selection is 50/50 but the previous selection has no influence on the current outcome. It's like flipping a coin. So any given makeup (12/0, 9/3, 6/6, 0/12) has an equal chance of occurring

Good man Mickey D!! You need to read the probability chapter again.

macdanger2

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2094 on: March 13, 2018, 11:06:37 PM »

Quite the opposite in fact, every selection is 50/50 but the previous selection has no influence on the current outcome. It's like flipping a coin. So any given makeup (12/0, 9/3, 6/6, 0/12) has an equal chance of occurring

Good man Mickey D!! You need to read the probability chapter again.

Doh, my bad. Forgot to account for the fact that there are more ways for some outcomes to happen than others  :(

~ 5% chance of a 9/3 male/female split

David McKeown

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2095 on: March 13, 2018, 11:30:56 PM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

See I don't know what the actual allegation is. The charge is committing an act likely to pervert the course of justice. Deleting texts could amount to that but deleting texts is not in and of itself a crime. I've yet to read what the evidence is that these texts were relevant to the alleged crime and/or they were deleted after he became aware or ought to have been aware that the texts may form evidence. I literally have no clue what the allegation against Harrison is either because I've missed it in reports or because it hasn't been reported.

magpie seanie

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2096 on: March 14, 2018, 08:42:57 AM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

See I don't know what the actual allegation is. The charge is committing an act likely to pervert the course of justice. Deleting texts could amount to that but deleting texts is not in and of itself a crime. I've yet to read what the evidence is that these texts were relevant to the alleged crime and/or they were deleted after he became aware or ought to have been aware that the texts may form evidence. I literally have no clue what the allegation against Harrison is either because I've missed it in reports or because it hasn't been reported.


Telling lads to leave their phones at home when going to police is probably part of it. After getting the text about it being non-consensual the prosecution maintain he was the one that got them together to straighten out their stories.

Maybe they don't have enough evidence to convict but put him up to try and get him to crack and rat the boys out?

AQMP

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2097 on: March 14, 2018, 09:38:25 AM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

See I don't know what the actual allegation is. The charge is committing an act likely to pervert the course of justice. Deleting texts could amount to that but deleting texts is not in and of itself a crime. I've yet to read what the evidence is that these texts were relevant to the alleged crime and/or they were deleted after he became aware or ought to have been aware that the texts may form evidence. I literally have no clue what the allegation against Harrison is either because I've missed it in reports or because it hasn't been reported.

I'd need to check this but I think the PSNI didn't actually take Harrison's phone until October 2016.  I think when he was asked to attend for interview he didn't bring his phone with him (not a crime in itself) but it was then that the cops found out about the deleted text messages and also that he had carried out some sort of factory setting reset on his phone in August (at least that's the allegation?).  He claims his phone had some sort of meltdown.  He didn't tell police about the "not consensual" text from the girl nor the texts and phone calls with McIlroy and I think he gave as little away as possible in his interviews ("Dad will know what to say").  But I agree there's been little detail of the case against Harrison, I suppose the media are concentrating on Jackson and Olding.

Harrison has been incredibly stupid here, but that's not a crime (if it was, I'd have spent large chunks of my life in clink :P)

Owen Brannigan

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2098 on: March 14, 2018, 10:41:39 AM »
PPS are using the combined trial of all four to paint a picture of a crime being committed by two, another attempting to join in and a fourth attempting to cover up in conjunction with others.

Harrison, if tried on his own, would walk because he was ambushed by PSNI not telling him he was being treated as other than a witness.  Prosecution tried to show he was holding back when interviewed by PSNI but he simply retorted that he didn't tell because he wasn't asked and his phone wasn't asked for. The others said much less but they had their solicitors running the show for them.  No responsibility on Harrison to tell all to PSNI.


Syferus

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #2099 on: March 14, 2018, 10:47:44 AM »
What exactly is the allegation against Harrison I've yet to read what it is. Simply deleting messages without more is not a crime.

is he not charged with perverting the course of justice / withholding information or will these be dropped when the other three are aquitted?

See I don't know what the actual allegation is. The charge is committing an act likely to pervert the course of justice. Deleting texts could amount to that but deleting texts is not in and of itself a crime. I've yet to read what the evidence is that these texts were relevant to the alleged crime and/or they were deleted after he became aware or ought to have been aware that the texts may form evidence. I literally have no clue what the allegation against Harrison is either because I've missed it in reports or because it hasn't been reported.

I'd need to check this but I think the PSNI didn't actually take Harrison's phone until October 2016.  I think when he was asked to attend for interview he didn't bring his phone with him (not a crime in itself) but it was then that the cops found out about the deleted text messages and also that he had carried out some sort of factory setting reset on his phone in August (at least that's the allegation?).  He claims his phone had some sort of meltdown.  He didn't tell police about the "not consensual" text from the girl nor the texts and phone calls with McIlroy and I think he gave as little away as possible in his interviews ("Dad will know what to say").  But I agree there's been little detail of the case against Harrison, I suppose the media are concentrating on Jackson and Olding.

Harrison has been incredibly stupid here, but that's not a crime (if it was, I'd have spent large chunks of my life in clink :P)

You’ve covered up for people you were told were rapists? You have a very generous reading of what Harrison did and his maliciousness, to put it mildly.