Author Topic: The ulster rugby trial  (Read 144633 times)

general_lee

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2018, 10:16:05 AM »
Not surprised this sort of carryon exists within Irish rugby.
Really? Rugby is conservative. It’s widely believed these boys will not play for Ulster again, even if found not guilty.

Dinny Breen

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2018, 10:16:43 AM »
Are there any solicitors on the forum?

In the discussing the case in this manner on a public forum, are many posters not being prejudicial? The papers are only presenting the facts not offering opinion for a very good reason. If any juror read this forum you could run the risk of the trail collapsing. So when some gobshite has these guys hung drawn and quartered on day 1 of a 5 week trial that person could be doing more harm than good and if they are are guilty justice might not be served.

We as a forum need to be cognitive of our reach we are not in the bubble we think we are, these are peoples lives (all in tatters and their families as well, regardless of the verdict for both the accused and the victim) we are discussing and should refrain from offering opinion until the trial reaches conclusion.
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Frank_The_Tank

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2018, 10:17:41 AM »
I havent looked at the rugby thread enough but seeing as this is standalone. What are the view on Best and henderson going to the trial?
Is that not ridiculous the week of a match to be going there, even in your own time?

Shouldn't have been there IMO a few days before a massive game away to France
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armaghniac

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2018, 10:18:51 AM »
It's fairly standard stuff in any trial, she'll be asked did it look to her as if there was any sign of aggression or discomfort, in her opinion did it look consensual? How long was she in the room? Did the lady in question react in any way to her being in the room? (I think I've read she covered herself up? Open to correction), if/when she covered up when you were in the room, why do you think she didn't instead ask you for help? Did the lady look in any sign of distress? Did she hear anything to signify distress before entering the room? Did she hear anything that prompted her to come up and check in on the room initially?

These are unpleasant questions, it's an unpleasant situation. I'm not saying who's right and wrong please don't think that the above is in any way defending Jackson/Olding because it's literally day 3 of a 5 week trial. There is a lot of information to come and considering the threshold of 'beyond reasonable doubt' in a criminal case. This maybe key in my opinon, that's my point.

It is very difficult to prove rape when there is a question of consensual sex, given the requirements of criminal proof.
The woman entering the room might well prove decisive.
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gallsman

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2018, 10:26:23 AM »
In my view, they were perfectly entitled to attend if they want but, at best, it was highly ill advised, particularly ahead of the match on Saturday.

The IRFU and Schmidt have whiffed badly on it.
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rosnarun

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2018, 10:27:10 AM »
I havent looked at the rugby thread enough but seeing as this is standalone. What are the view on Best and henderson going to the trial?
Is that not ridiculous the week of a match to be going there, even in your own time?

Shouldn't have been there IMO a few days before a massive game away to France
yes because the game in france is the important thing here,

they were there to support their friend  and I don't suppose they have any more idea wheter they are guilty or innocent than any one else.
at what stage of a court case would you abandon your friends if you thought it looked bad on you?
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general_lee

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2018, 10:30:15 AM »
Are there any solicitors on the forum?

In the discussing the case in this manner on a public forum, are many posters not being prejudicial? The papers are only presenting the facts not offering opinion for a very good reason. If any juror read this forum you could run the risk of the trail collapsing. So when some gobshite has these guys hung drawn and quartered on day 1 of a 5 week trial that person could be doing more harm than good and if they are are guilty justice might not be served.

We as a forum need to be cognitive of our reach we are not in the bubble we think we are, these are peoples lives (all in tatters and their families as well, regardless of the verdict for both the accused and the victim) we are discussing and should refrain from offering opinion until the trial reaches conclusion.
Honestly think jurors will be privy to much more information than we the general public have, and in that sense I doubt they’d be influenced by anything they read on GAAboard. In any case I’d say they’d be instructed to avoid as much as possible reading about the case, especially on such forums as this, and they will be discussing it among themselves for the next month so I’d say they’ll get their fill of it there.

TabClear

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2018, 10:31:35 AM »
What is the actual law in terms of what is deemed consensual when alcohol has been consumed. I'm not talking about if the woman is paralytic which is clear, but if the woman is "just" drunk. i.e does something she would never do when sober? I would say a lot of people on here have had a few "encounters" that would not have happened if both parties had been sober.

As far as the actual case goes it looks bad for those guys on the basis of the evidence presented so far. Obviously more to come from both sides but there will be some pretty grim testimony in court when the witnesses/accused take the stand.

Frank_The_Tank

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2018, 10:33:15 AM »
Are there any solicitors on the forum?

In the discussing the case in this manner on a public forum, are many posters not being prejudicial? The papers are only presenting the facts not offering opinion for a very good reason. If any juror read this forum you could run the risk of the trail collapsing. So when some gobshite has these guys hung drawn and quartered on day 1 of a 5 week trial that person could be doing more harm than good and if they are are guilty justice might not be served.

We as a forum need to be cognitive of our reach we are not in the bubble we think we are, these are peoples lives (all in tatters and their families as well, regardless of the verdict for both the accused and the victim) we are discussing and should refrain from offering opinion until the trial reaches conclusion.
Honestly think jurors will be privy to much more information than we the general public have, and in that sense I doubt they’d be influenced by anything they read on GAAboard. In any case I’d say they’d be instructed to avoid as much as possible reading about the case, especially on such forums as this, and they will be discussing it among themselves for the next month so I’d say they’ll get their fill of it there.

That's the first thing the judge instructed the jury - (as well as telling them they are the only people who will see and hear all the evidence)

The judge also warned the jury to ignore press reports on the trial, saying it was likely that there will be "a lot of press interest", while also cautioning them not to conduct any research into individuals or anything to do with the trial.

She said: “It would be wrong and it would be in breach of your oath or affirmation if you do,"
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magpie seanie

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2018, 10:34:30 AM »
In my view, they were perfectly entitled to attend if they want but, at best, it was highly ill advised, particularly ahead of the match on Saturday.

The IRFU and Schmidt have whiffed badly on it.


Nail on the head. They should have dealt with this well in advance. They're nowhere near as professional as they pretend to be.

Orior

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2018, 10:36:26 AM »
Whatever happens, it is the end of the career of two or three rugby players. In fact, I have no idea where they will get work, and will probably have to emigrate.

Add a stupid girl to stupid drunk rugby players and the result is that everyone looses except the lawyers. Very sad.
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Dinny Breen

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2018, 10:41:03 AM »
In my view, they were perfectly entitled to attend if they want but, at best, it was highly ill advised, particularly ahead of the match on Saturday.

The IRFU and Schmidt have whiffed badly on it.

Don't be ridiculous

Of course he could comment on it but, if he criticised either of them for doing so, the defence/prosecution could use his status as Irish head coach to paint any criticism as implying something else.

If people want this case to stick and not collapse Schmidt did the right thing.

Stupid question to asking him to comment on a live trial. Journalists can be stupid.
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Walter Cronc

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2018, 10:46:33 AM »
Would Best/Henderson have sought permission from Schmidt to attend the trial? Or is it a case of do what you like ( within reason) on the day off?

gallsman

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2018, 10:46:50 AM »
In my view, they were perfectly entitled to attend if they want but, at best, it was highly ill advised, particularly ahead of the match on Saturday.

The IRFU and Schmidt have whiffed badly on it.

Don't be ridiculous

Of course he could comment on it but, if he criticised either of them for doing so, the defence/prosecution could use his status as Irish head coach to paint any criticism as implying something else.

If people want this case to stick and not collapse Schmidt did the right thing.

Stupid question to asking him to comment on a live trial. Journalists can be stupid.

This is obviously too close to home for you Dinny as there's nothing ridiculous about it. As for the whole "could prejudice the case" spiel, we're perfectly entitled to discuss it and debate the merits of the case

He was not asked about a live trial, he was asked about the decision of his captain and another player to attend said trial. It was a perfectly valid question from a journalism perspective and, as I said, one he completely whiffed on.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 10:49:20 AM by gallsman »
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screenexile

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Re: The ulster rugby trial
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2018, 10:57:17 AM »
In my view, they were perfectly entitled to attend if they want but, at best, it was highly ill advised, particularly ahead of the match on Saturday.

The IRFU and Schmidt have whiffed badly on it.

Don't be ridiculous

Of course he could comment on it but, if he criticised either of them for doing so, the defence/prosecution could use his status as Irish head coach to paint any criticism as implying something else.

If people want this case to stick and not collapse Schmidt did the right thing.

Stupid question to asking him to comment on a live trial. Journalists can be stupid.

This is obviously too close to home for you Dinny as there's nothing ridiculous about it. As for the whole "could prejudice the case" spiel, we're perfectly entitled to discuss it and debate the merits of the case

He was not asked about a live trial, he was asked about the decision of his captain and another player to attend said trial. It was a perfectly valid question from a journalism perspective and, as I said, one he completely whiffed on.

What possible answer could he have given that wouldn't have been jumped on either way??

He sidestepped it so as to cause the least fuss which is what he should have done! Personally I don't think the lads sought permission from IRFU to go otherwise they'd have been told to stay well away I think. I don't think they did anything wrong but then you don't have to in todays world the appearance is enough.