Author Topic: Aussie Flu  (Read 3242 times)

Hereiam

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2018, 11:30:09 PM »
Now we have French flu on the way. We are all doomed i tell ye.

BennyCake

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2018, 12:01:07 AM »
Now we have French flu on the way. We are all doomed i tell ye.

Sacre bleu!

magpie seanie

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2018, 08:50:47 AM »
The effects of a  flu vaccine are only observed on flu vaxxed people and afaics those claims for positive effects are extremely dubious and exhibit some of the worst of bad science and dogma.

There is bad science and dogma, but it is not coming from those advocating the vaccine.


Nail on the head.

All science is questioned and if it doesn't stand up it's found out. There's no conspiracy here. Anti-vaccer is similar to climate change denial - ignore the mountains of good, proven, peer reviewed science and tell about what happened to Mary down the road.....

magpie seanie

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 08:53:08 AM »
Over a winter there are numerous strains of flu. A flu in October will be different to one in March. How can the jab cover all strains? It can't.

I won't be getting a jab. I think they do far more harm than good.


You couldn't be more wrong. Ridiculous statement to come out with when you have zero evidence to support it.

Well, is anything in my first paragraph incorrect?

And where's your evidence supporting the jab being good for stopping the flu?

not incorrect but incomplete.
every year they update the flu jab with all new known strains so next year the jab will protect against the aussie flu. the cant inoculate against something that hasn't been seen yet . and as for the lad worried about chemicals you need to revise your basic science. but as long as the rest of us get the jab you should be fine .
your welcome


Absolutely correct bar the item in black. The flu referred to as the Aussie flu was here last year and this years flu vaccine will cover you against it. There is another strain that's new this year that is as bad but not covered by the flu jab.

omaghjoe

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2018, 08:21:34 PM »
The effects of a  flu vaccine are only observed on flu vaxxed people and afaics those claims for positive effects are extremely dubious and exhibit some of the worst of bad science and dogma.

There is bad science and dogma, but it is not coming from those advocating the vaccine.


Nail on the head.

All science is questioned and if it doesn't stand up it's found out. There's no conspiracy here. Anti-vaccer is similar to climate change denial - ignore the mountains of good, proven, peer reviewed science and tell about what happened to Mary down the road.....

Who said anything about a conspiracy?

One way to deal with concerns or tough questions is to label those asking them as loonies. All my weans are update with vaccinations with the exception of the seasonal flu jab so if that makes me a climate change denier Ill ride with that f**k it sure throw me in with the flat earthers too if it makes you feel better ::)

Guilt by association may be enough to scare some people away from asking them but the questions will remain.
Its a decent tactic tho as the majority will follow the herd (pardon the pun) but the concerns will persist from the dissenters.

omaghjoe

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2018, 08:35:02 PM »

So my concerns are similar with the flu vaccine. IMO PPM or not of chemicals is of no consequence as it goes straight into your blood stream without being diluted or broken down by the bacteria or enzymes in your gut. Not to mention that it changes every year so there is no real understanding of how it affects the body.


Quite a lot of things pass through your gut without being broken down by bacteria or enzymes. If the vaccine was administered via ingestion it would alay very few of your concerns.
Precisely alot of crap in processed food is shat out wereas with a jab  it goes to every organ in your body before the liver gets to work on it. A good example of the difference would be what would happen if I injected a halfun of bushmills v drinking it?


Also I should clarify that i meant by making your immune system weaker.... is that by getting the flu and beating it naturally will leave your immune system stronger for longer than with a flu shot. Which only equates into an annual dependency on the flu shot.


Not strictly true. As previously stated the influenza virus mutates often and immune challenge to one influenza strain provides very little persistent immunity. This also counters your annual dependency argument, you're dependent on annual vaccination because the influenza strain is mutating not because you never had a natural challenge.
Don't think your right there, a jab will only give immunity only for a short period even for the same strain where as you have lifelong immunity from the same strain and increased immunity from similar strains. In fact it could be argued that the jab is causing increased rates of mutation so making the seasonal flu deadlier.


As far as herd immunity goes tho, doeskin that need to be at higher than 90% to be effective


It varies from pathogen to pathogen depending upon their mode of transmission, latency, existence outside the host and other factors. It is usually fairly high but it is not a consistent number across various infectious agents.

Therefore it would be a non starter for the flu considering the hit and miss ratio of getting the correct strain

magpie seanie

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 09:59:28 PM »
Omaghjoe - I wasn't having a go at you at all. I suggest you read up on how vaccines work. I know from reading your posts that you don't understand how they work. Try this page for example https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/work/prevention/index.html


Tyroneforsam

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 10:07:24 PM »
There's a man from pomeroy that died from complications resulting from Aussie flu leaving behind a wife and two young babies not even two years old yet the lot of your are Slabbering on here.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 10:35:05 PM »
There's a man from pomeroy that died from complications resulting from Aussie flu leaving behind a wife and two young babies not even two years old yet the lot of your are Slabbering on here.

Was mentioned already on this thread..
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

trileacman

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2018, 11:38:06 PM »

So my concerns are similar with the flu vaccine. IMO PPM or not of chemicals is of no consequence as it goes straight into your blood stream without being diluted or broken down by the bacteria or enzymes in your gut. Not to mention that it changes every year so there is no real understanding of how it affects the body.


Quite a lot of things pass through your gut without being broken down by bacteria or enzymes. If the vaccine was administered via ingestion it would alay very few of your concerns.
Precisely alot of crap in processed food is shat out wereas with a jab  it goes to every organ in your body before the liver gets to work on it. A good example of the difference would be what would happen if I injected a halfun of bushmills v drinking it?


Also I should clarify that i meant by making your immune system weaker.... is that by getting the flu and beating it naturally will leave your immune system stronger for longer than with a flu shot. Which only equates into an annual dependency on the flu shot.


Not strictly true. As previously stated the influenza virus mutates often and immune challenge to one influenza strain provides very little persistent immunity. This also counters your annual dependency argument, you're dependent on annual vaccination because the influenza strain is mutating not because you never had a natural challenge.
Don't think your right there, a jab will only give immunity only for a short period even for the same strain where as you have lifelong immunity from the same strain and increased immunity from similar strains. In fact it could be argued that the jab is causing increased rates of mutation so making the seasonal flu deadlier.


As far as herd immunity goes tho, doeskin that need to be at higher than 90% to be effective


It varies from pathogen to pathogen depending upon their mode of transmission, latency, existence outside the host and other factors. It is usually fairly high but it is not a consistent number across various infectious agents.

Therefore it would be a non starter for the flu considering the hit and miss ratio of getting the correct strain

1. Thereís no huge difference in terms of organs visited when you ingest a whisky than with injection of one. Ethanol is absorbed into the blood from the gut and travels to all your organs just the same as if you had injected it directly to your blood stream. The only true difference would be the bioavailability. I donít think youíre getting this.

2. How can a vaccine cause increased rates of mutation in a virus?
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omaghjoe

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2018, 05:39:07 AM »

So my concerns are similar with the flu vaccine. IMO PPM or not of chemicals is of no consequence as it goes straight into your blood stream without being diluted or broken down by the bacteria or enzymes in your gut. Not to mention that it changes every year so there is no real understanding of how it affects the body.


Quite a lot of things pass through your gut without being broken down by bacteria or enzymes. If the vaccine was administered via ingestion it would alay very few of your concerns.
Precisely alot of crap in processed food is shat out wereas with a jab  it goes to every organ in your body before the liver gets to work on it. A good example of the difference would be what would happen if I injected a halfun of bushmills v drinking it?


Also I should clarify that i meant by making your immune system weaker.... is that by getting the flu and beating it naturally will leave your immune system stronger for longer than with a flu shot. Which only equates into an annual dependency on the flu shot.


Not strictly true. As previously stated the influenza virus mutates often and immune challenge to one influenza strain provides very little persistent immunity. This also counters your annual dependency argument, you're dependent on annual vaccination because the influenza strain is mutating not because you never had a natural challenge.
Don't think your right there, a jab will only give immunity only for a short period even for the same strain where as you have lifelong immunity from the same strain and increased immunity from similar strains. In fact it could be argued that the jab is causing increased rates of mutation so making the seasonal flu deadlier.


As far as herd immunity goes tho, doeskin that need to be at higher than 90% to be effective


It varies from pathogen to pathogen depending upon their mode of transmission, latency, existence outside the host and other factors. It is usually fairly high but it is not a consistent number across various infectious agents.

Therefore it would be a non starter for the flu considering the hit and miss ratio of getting the correct strain

1. Thereís no huge difference in terms of organs visited when you ingest a whisky than with injection of one. Ethanol is absorbed into the blood from the gut and travels to all your organs just the same as if you had injected it directly to your blood stream. The only true difference would be the bioavailability. I donít think youíre getting this.

2. How can a vaccine cause increased rates of mutation in a virus?

1. Maybe alchohol was a bad example but my point remains that anything injected directly into the bloodstream has more of an effect than something digested.

2. I was only was aware of a brief news article on this:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/here-s-one-reason-flu-vaccines-are-so-lousy-they-n818046
NBC are fake news tho so here's the study from experts who know nothing.
http://www.pnas.org/content/114/47/12578.short

omaghjoe

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2018, 05:42:29 AM »
Omaghjoe - I wasn't having a go at you at all. I suggest you read up on how vaccines work. I know from reading your posts that you don't understand how they work. Try this page for example https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/work/prevention/index.html

Fair enough I'll take your word for it although what I said still stands for anyone who is voicing genuine concerns and suddenly they become Jim Corr

AS I said b4 I know practically nothing about vaccines but there is nothing on that link I didnt know, its very basic stuff. What post in particular would lead you to believe that I didnt understand the info on that page? Or better still tell me what in particular that I am wrong about? I have an open mind on this and willing to learn.

johnneycool

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 08:49:43 AM »
At the risk of being thrown in the dungeon as an antivaxer..... Ive a few questions

Is there any good reason for not getting a flu shot?
Is there any point to putting a load of chemicals, preservatives and other crap into my body that I probably wont need?
Do medical professionals play it save and use the law of averages for the population when dealing with individuals and thereby declare that pretty much everyone should get it.
Am I making my immune system weaker in the long term?

None

Rather angled description of the vaccine. Think of a flu shot as insurance for your car/home. Hopefully you never need those either but you avail of their protection. The flu shot usually has the virus itself. That virus is deactivated by miniscule amounts of formaldehyde. Yes. Sounds scary and awful but itís in the parts per tens of millions. Usually thereís an adjuvant like aluminum, again the PPM range. Then thereís some gelatin. A common stabilizer which keeps the vaccine suitable for use between manufacture and administration. Itís usually porcine gelatin so many vaccines will come with a warning for those with pork allergies.

Wish I had pork allergies over xmas!

So can anyone avail of the flu jab? I thought the very young and the old only

Drove past a chemists in Newtownards offering the flu vaccine for £10.

I presume all chemists who are equipped with the right personnel and facilities must be able to do it.

I'm offered it every year by my GP due to the asthma, haven't taken it this year though.

magpie seanie

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2018, 09:00:24 AM »
Examples:

Quote
a jab will only give immunity only for a short period even for the same strain


That page explains how a vaccine creates antibodies which permanently reside in the body. Similar to how they are created by actually getting the illness, without getting the illness of course.

Quote
Therefore it would be a non starter for the flu considering the hit and miss ratio of getting the correct strain

There's no hit and miss ratio. It's very clear what strains are covered by the flu vaccine. I've mentioned it a few times on this thread. A vaccine cannot be developed for a mutation that might happen......it will always be playing a catch up game unless the virus stops mutating.

magpie seanie

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Re: Aussie Flu
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2018, 09:03:49 AM »
At the risk of being thrown in the dungeon as an antivaxer..... Ive a few questions

Is there any good reason for not getting a flu shot?
Is there any point to putting a load of chemicals, preservatives and other crap into my body that I probably wont need?
Do medical professionals play it save and use the law of averages for the population when dealing with individuals and thereby declare that pretty much everyone should get it.
Am I making my immune system weaker in the long term?

None

Rather angled description of the vaccine. Think of a flu shot as insurance for your car/home. Hopefully you never need those either but you avail of their protection. The flu shot usually has the virus itself. That virus is deactivated by miniscule amounts of formaldehyde. Yes. Sounds scary and awful but itís in the parts per tens of millions. Usually thereís an adjuvant like aluminum, again the PPM range. Then thereís some gelatin. A common stabilizer which keeps the vaccine suitable for use between manufacture and administration. Itís usually porcine gelatin so many vaccines will come with a warning for those with pork allergies.

Wish I had pork allergies over xmas!

So can anyone avail of the flu jab? I thought the very young and the old only

Drove past a chemists in Newtownards offering the flu vaccine for £10.

I presume all chemists who are equipped with the right personnel and facilities must be able to do it.

I'm offered it every year by my GP due to the asthma, haven't taken it this year though.


Yes, absolutely. It's quite a simple process. I'm getting mine in my local chemist on Saturday. I'd usually have got it by now through work but I've changed job this year and the new employer didn't offer it. I hope I'm not too late.....will know in the next couple of weeks. Just can't afford the week of misery with the project I'm working on.