Las Vegas Shooting

[Seamus]

Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.

Have also saw suggestions that firing came from the 4th floor as well as the 32nd.

So, what's the thoughts on that?  Tin foil hat brigade or something more sinister?

Maybe he used a forklift to carry all the guns up. 

Or maybe, given that he was there three or four days, he took them up a few at a time. In and out of the place with cases and bags.

Like every other guest in the place!

I've stayed in hotels for stretches where I've had the "do not disturb" sign up for a few days. That means the staff don't come in unless I ask them. And if they do come in, are they really going to raise eyebrows about a few suitcases sitting around the place?

And cameras?? Seriously?? Is rigging up a few wireless cameras to a laptop high tech stuff?

As for the fourth floor "shooter" - is there any evidence? Broken windows? It's hardly unusual for all kinds of stories to take root in the panic and confusion.

Finally, mass murderer death by suicide at the point of capture is almost cliched at this point, it's so common.

Basically, some people just don't want to accept, for whatever reason, that an aging white guy did this.

Room Service was in his room numerous times during his stay including morning before the shooting, no suspicious activity detected.
No shooting from the 4th floor, no windows broken.

[Boycey]

After the PR success  of his trip to Puerto Rico yesterday, I wonder how he'll get on in Vegas today..

[seafoid]

Craig Herman, 57, a contractor, told the Telegraph: "I was right in front of the stage.  I heard 'pop, pop, pop' over and over again. When he was reloading I ran. I stepped over a guy with blood pouring out of his head. He was dead. Gone. I saw maybe 15 others like that before I got out.

"There were people screaming, lying on the ground. I've never seen so much blood. I kept thinking what type of person would do this, who would be that kind of stupid? Was it the Taliban? Mexican cartels? Gang related? But it was someone a bit like me."

[Eamonnca1]

Great little piece here by John Oliver on Alex Jones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGq6cjcc3Q

He's basically a rolling infomercial that makes millions of dollars hawking various products to gullible and paranoid people.

[whitey]

Answer the question - why are you using stats based on race when it has no relevance to the atrocity in Las Vegas?
As for whether I feel empathy for people shooting up Dublin, nothing I wrote can have given you that impression. It's kind of pathetic to see you resorting to transparent tricks like that.
Are you going to answer the question?

Re read the thread....I was simply pointing out that "averages" dont paint a complete picture as to murder rates and gun crime.  Many murder victims (as in Dublin) are career criminals with rap sheets as long as your arm. They are murdered by other career criminals with rap sheets as long as your arm.  Many of these murders occur in very tight geographic regions, where regular people dont venture day or night.

Obviously the DOJ and the FBI concur with me, as that is how they deliver the data.

[easytiger95]

Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)

[whitey]

Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)

I use them for the same reason they are collected....because they are relevant to the dialogue and they give perspective and color to otherwise meaningless statistics. 

[Never beat the deeler]

Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)

I use them for the same reason they are collected....because they are relevant to the dialogue and they give perspective and color to otherwise meaningless statistics.

Indeed

[easytiger95]

But you still haven't answered- why are they relevant to the discussion of a crime committed by a white person on a largely white crowd???
Whitey, credibility is a finite resource and yours is running out

[heganboy]

They give one perspective White, and that happens to suit your agenda. How about by sex, what is the proportion of male to female gun crime. Oh wait, that's a significantly more statistically important number. Maybe just women can have guns.

[whitey]

But you still haven't answered- why are they relevant to the discussion of a crime committed by a white person on a largely white crowd???
Whitey, credibility is a finite resource and yours is running out

It started as  a response to a quote about the mentality of the  "average american" being all gung ho about owning guns.

(Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes;  all big businness in the states
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 10:47:12 PM by Wildweasel74 »
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85% of people in MA dont even own a fvcking gun.....so using averages to explain anything to do with guns in this context is completely misleading because there are such extremes from state to state and even from city to city that the averages become completely meaningless. 

The murder rate in Chicago is X, but if 90 % of the murders occur in area Y.....then the murder rate for people who have never set foot in area Y is not X. Its not as low as it is in Ireland, but its definitely not X.

[easytiger95]

Nah whitey, that's not what you said. You said the murder rate was driven by people not like "you and me" in places where "regular" people wouldn't set foot. So for America that excludes black and brown people from "regular" people and we know for sure that in an Irish context that means you don't think northside dubs are either.
And all this just to prove that your anecdotal experience of middle America is the norm in the face of overwhelming statatistical evidence that America as a whole has a systemic problem with guns. In the same week as a man as representative of middle America as any other slaughtered 59 other middle Americans.
If I were you, I wouldn't have staked my credibility for that argument. If I were you, i'd examine some of my attitudes.

[whitey]

Believe whatever you want.....I stand by by assertion that a large percentage of murders are gang and drug related and occur between people with long criminal rap sheets who already know each other.

Outside of those specific instances  and areas the average numbers look quite different.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/51-murders-us-come-just-2-counties

"Conclusion

This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year.  Murder isn't a nationwide problem.  It's a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders."

(And the townI live in has had zero murders in the past 10 years in spite of having 500+ licensed gun owners. The town I grew up in Ireland has had 6 murders over the past decade)

[easytiger95]

Whitey you're not longer defending the indefensible, you're just ignoring it. You are hiding behind numbers when it is your words and attitudes that I have questioned. no one is quibbling with your numbers - it's why you saw fit to use them in the aftermath of an incident they do not relate to. Still not answered. I guess us non-regular people (ie people who are not white, massachusetts dwelling, gun violence virgins) aren't worth answering.

Why, it's almost like you're politicising a tragedy. I thought you guys weren't into that?

[easytiger95]

And for those who would like to quibble with whitey's numeric conclusions- a really good primer on gun stats especially on the relationship between gun ownership and homicide rates, suicide rates and mass murder rates.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts